What's new
What's new

Mfrg Co Looking to Buy First CMM for QC of Incoming Injection Molded Parts

xplodee

Hot Rolled
Joined
Oct 14, 2013
Location
Allentown, PA
Hello-

We are a medium sized OEM specializing in RD and light manufacturing of our own products. We outsource all injection molded projects. Over the years our New Product Introduction process has been hampered by the unknowns associated with complex geometry in our injection molded parts; Things that we can't easily measure popping up to bite us in the ass after we go from dozens of units during sampling to thousands of units during production.

We are looking to purchase a 3D scanner for the NPI phase plus a CMM for ongoing quality control of injection molded components. Does anyone happen to have a passion for this stuff and care to speak with me on the phone about our application and best approach/brands/investments for our needs? Alternatively, if you're in the area and would like a free lunch, I'm happy to buy! It would be greatly appreciated.

Tim
 
I would reach out to some CMM salesmen in your area (Mitutoyo, Hexagon, Zeiss, Helmel). In my experience they are more than helpful and will usually do some trial measurements on YOUR parts so you can see first hand what you are getting. Obviously it comes down to you making what you feel is the best fit based on price/function. But this should get you in the right direction, and typically THEY buy YOU lunch.
 
I am not an expert, nor do I have a particular passion for CMM inspections, but here is my 2 cents anyways:

There are two major players in the game. Hexagon (PCDMIS). They have been buying up and re-branding a lot of other companies. They seem to be the most common, and easier to find programmer and operators.

Zeiss (Calypso). These are much higher end machines for similar cost of entry. The software is a bit more complicated, and it is harder for find qualified programmers, but accuracy is better when comparing dollar for dollar.

I have worked in many hexagon shops, and am in my first Zeiss shop now. After seeing the differences, I prefer Zeiss machines. But I think my biggest concerns if I was starting from scratch would be machine support, and the availability of a workforce to run them.
 
I am not an expert, nor do I have a particular passion for CMM inspections, but here is my 2 cents anyways:

There are two major players in the game. Hexagon (PCDMIS). They have been buying up and re-branding a lot of other companies. They seem to be the most common, and easier to find programmer and operators.

Zeiss (Calypso). These are much higher end machines for similar cost of entry. The software is a bit more complicated, and it is harder for find qualified programmers, but accuracy is better when comparing dollar for dollar.

I have worked in many hexagon shops, and am in my first Zeiss shop now. After seeing the differences, I prefer Zeiss machines. But I think my biggest concerns if I was starting from scratch would be machine support, and the availability of a workforce to run them.

Don't forget LK.

They have managed to evade the Hexagon acquisition train. Owned by Nikon for a long time, bought by a privately owned Italian metrology company a couple of years ago
 
Find out the cost of service and calibration. See if it can be rented. Of coarse if it is government work, no worries.
 
You should take a look at Mitutoyo, they have a complete line of CMM systems to address a host of different requirements. Very low cost of ownership and no yearly Software Maintenance Aggreement on there software. They also have models you can attach a laser scanning head to for your 3D part scanning needs with there SurfaceMeasure Probe.
 
Hello-

We are a medium sized OEM specializing in RD and light manufacturing of our own products. We outsource all injection molded projects. Over the years our New Product Introduction process has been hampered by the unknowns associated with complex geometry in our injection molded parts; Things that we can't easily measure popping up to bite us in the ass after we go from dozens of units during sampling to thousands of units during production.

We are looking to purchase a 3D scanner for the NPI phase plus a CMM for ongoing quality control of injection molded components. Does anyone happen to have a passion for this stuff and care to speak with me on the phone about our application and best approach/brands/investments for our needs? Alternatively, if you're in the area and would like a free lunch, I'm happy to buy! It would be greatly appreciated.

Tim

I'm not getting this. Why would it be necessary to keep inspecting injection molded parts? If the mold has more than one cavity identify each cavity.

Once the mold is up and running about the only thing that should risk going wrong (barring mold changes) is whether or not the items have full form. Accurate weighing could determine good or bad. I'm guessing LEGO knows what they are doing. I'm less than ½ an hour from LEGO in Billund, Denmark and know many that make LEGO molds.

What I'm asking is what could change with your injection molded parts that could warrant measurement inspection of large numbers?

LEGO (Injection moulded plastic) - YouTube
 
I'm not getting this. Why would it be necessary to keep inspecting injection molded parts? If the mold has more than one cavity identify each cavity.

Once the mold is up and running about the only thing that should risk going wrong (barring mold changes) is whether or not the items have full form. Accurate weighing could determine good or bad. I'm guessing LEGO knows what they are doing. I'm less than ½ an hour from LEGO in Billund, Denmark and know many that make LEGO molds.

What I'm asking is what could change with your injection molded parts that could warrant measurement inspection of large numbers?

LEGO (Injection moulded plastic) - YouTube

There are a lot more influences to part geometry than just the shape of the mold.
The mold temperature, ambient temperature, resin grade, resin moisture content, fill rate/profile, pack pressure/ time, cooling time can all influence sizes. Your freinds at Lego will be spending lots of money to control all of these things, but will still be making dimensional checks on each batch just like the OP wants to.
 
There are a lot more influences to part geometry than just the shape of the mold.
The mold temperature, ambient temperature, resin grade, resin moisture content, fill rate/profile, pack pressure/ time, cooling time can all influence sizes. Your freinds at Lego will be spending lots of money to control all of these things, but will still be making dimensional checks on each batch just like the OP wants to.

A picture of what is giving the OP problems would help. How many per batch do you think LEGO inspects for dimensions?

I don't disagree with your list of what influences dimensions but I'd hope the supplier has it all under control before sending. Catching defects at incoming inspection costs time and money and more often than not production delays.
 
A picture of what is giving the OP problems would help. How many per batch do you think LEGO inspects for dimensions?

I don't disagree with your list of what influences dimensions but I'd hope the supplier has it all under control before sending. Catching defects at incoming inspection costs time and money and more often than not production delays.

The problem is the suppliers don't have it all under control as you're describing because in the real world most Asian molders do not operate anything close to how lego does. That's like comparing a Mclaren F1 to a Ford. It's not applicable to our needs. We've considered switches to domestic molders but they all buy molds from China anyway, mark them up 5x plus you have to wait months for the molds to ship from overseas and be tested in the US. So this is what it is and we are fine with it.

Back to the relevant topic of selecting a CMM. We are going to focus on Zeiss, Hexagon and Mitutoyo. We want an automated solution but don't need precision down to the millionth. Most of our needs would be well met at the 0.001" range although some applications that we may want would need precision to a tenth. I'm going to begin meeting with sales people to navigate my way through the options. Thank you to all!
 
Back to the relevant topic of selecting a CMM. We are going to focus on Zeiss, Hexagon and Mitutoyo. We want an automated solution but don't need precision down to the millionth. Most of our needs would be well met at the 0.001" range although some applications that we may want would need precision to a tenth. I'm going to begin meeting with sales people to navigate my way through the options. Thank you to all!

I hear you are a Mitituyo salesman. I can't see that from your posts but can you confirm or deny? If indeed you are it might be a plus to some PM members.
 
I hear you are a Mitituyo salesman. I can't see that from your posts but can you confirm or deny? If indeed you are it might be a plus to some PM members.

If he was a Mitutoyo salesman why the heck would he be asking us what CMM he should buy?
 
I am not an expert, nor do I have a particular passion for CMM inspections, but here is my 2 cents anyways:

There are two major players in the game. Hexagon (PCDMIS). They have been buying up and re-branding a lot of other companies. They seem to be the most common, and easier to find programmer and operators.

Zeiss (Calypso). These are much higher end machines for similar cost of entry. The software is a bit more complicated, and it is harder for find qualified programmers, but accuracy is better when comparing dollar for dollar.

I have worked in many hexagon shops, and am in my first Zeiss shop now. After seeing the differences, I prefer Zeiss machines. But I think my biggest concerns if I was starting from scratch would be machine support, and the availability of a workforce to run them.

The only thing i would add...... which one would have better training opportunities near you.
 
no, I am not a mitutoyo salesman. I'm looking to buy a CMM. Perhaps you meant someone different.

This is the reason I asked and I know who reported it.

This is part of this thread:
Mfrg Co Looking to Buy First CMM for QC of Incoming Injection Molded Parts
Mfrg Co Looking to Buy First CMM for QC of Incoming Injection Molded Parts

This is the reason that the user gave:
This is a Mitituyo salesman, hiding out as a "user".

This message has been sent to all moderators of this forum, or all administrators if there are no moderators.


Now if those protesting read what I wrote in post #15 then they can see I had no objection to a Mitutoyo salesman posting and was curious.

I repeat. I know who posted the complaint and was curious as to why he thought what he did.

I've no objection to any person employed in the measuring industry posting. Chances are they'll know more about the product than users.

Maybe the member who reported will come forward and tell us why he reported it. I do know who it is and not someone that normally posts in Metrology.
 








 
Back
Top