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Mitutoyo vs B&S

BRIAN.T

Cast Iron
Joined
Jul 23, 2018
Location
Los Angeles
I've always been partial to brown and sharpe hand measuring tools. The calipers are significantly more durable and accurate Ive found.

However I'm looking to buy a new set of mics, depth gages and various other hand tools, but brown and sharpe is also significantly more expensive than mitutoyo's version. The question is why? Seems like almost everyone buys mitutoyo these days, is it because they are less expensive? Certainly they are accurate.

Would you, if you were me, just pay the extra $100 each for brown and sharpe, or should I got mitutoyo. I know this topic gets covered every few years, but perhaps someone has some new insight or opinions that might help.

Thanks,
I'm also open to alternative suggestions, I'm not ruling out anything.
 
I like a lot of the classic B&S tools as well. However, times have changed and the money and attention of Hexagon (B&S owner) goes to CMM's and other high ticket items. Many of the hand tools are now made in China.

In digital calipers, I'd get Mitutoyo. Some of their high accuracy slide-mics are also nice, but expensive. Personally, I think their standard digital mics are a bit clunky; though excellent in terms of accuracy and reliability.

For seldom used sizes and tools (large mics, maybe bore mics, etc.), I'd consider buying older tools in top condition. Whether you want digital versions somewhat depends on the mix of US and metric-dimensioned parts you need to deal with.
 
I should probably qualify what I'm looking for exactly. Starting with these

0-1 mic accurate and reliable to .0001
1-2 mic same
2-3 mic same
Ratchet thimble preferred but not necessary.

Depth mic .001 is sufficient, but .0001 would be great.

Inside mic (already bought a mitutoyo, as brown and sharpe doesn't make one) 0-1 accurate to .0001. I can return this if you like something better.

These all all for shop floor/setup, however they will be kept under lock and key, used only by me for more critical parts. Regular calibration interval. Really I'm going to treat them like inspection room tools, only to be used carefully. I don't mind buying the right tool.
 
I like a lot of the classic B&S tools as well. However, times have changed and the money and attention of Hexagon (B&S owner) goes to CMM's and other high ticket items. Many of the hand tools are now made in China.

In digital calipers, I'd get Mitutoyo. Some of their high accuracy slide-mics are also nice, but expensive. Personally, I think their standard digital mics are a bit clunky; though excellent in terms of accuracy and reliability.

For seldom used sizes and tools (large mics, maybe bore mics, etc.), I'd consider buying older tools in top condition. Whether you want digital versions somewhat depends on the mix of US and metric-dimensioned parts you need to deal with.

I've thought about looking for older tools, but it seems risky, I could save a couple hundred bucks, but if one of those tools ends up being out for some reason it would be a wash.

I might be getting a single high accuracy 0-1 mic at some point, but for now I prefer analog.
 
Expanding on what has been said:

"Daily driver" Mitutoyo does the better "present day" (and for some years, already) job than Hexagon/B&S at holding "value for money", regardless of which factory.

B&S is not BAD, even so. Happy to have either, and quite a few others.

There isn't a huge need to be "brand loyal" in any case. It isn't LIKE matching socks or a set of four radial tires.

So long as each instrument does its job and SUITS your preferences? No two have to be the same brand at all. Not as if it was an Army unit on parade meant to all be in the same uniform.

As with Pete, I have a short ton of OLD metrology goods. Never was a Starrett fanboy so mostly B&S, Scherr-Timico, Lufkin, some Swiss and German.

It is realistically the ONLY way I can afford to cover the extreme ranges I might use once a year, once in five, ten . or even "never" span of years.

A 39 inch verner caliper? Well it don't eat much!

:)

And it beats all Hell out of an Igaging rule or a Stanley tape measure!

Buying up old, out of calibration "extension" goods for gage blocks gives me "good enough" standards to vet an old Vernier. 90 inches worth if all are stacked, actually.

And dirt cheap. Even so "daily driver" are good sets of "rod" standards, inch and metric. Gage block sets are seldom used these days, but "bedrock" when one must.

So used goods are "fill in" for things you would otherwise not have AT ALL.

Find a new need that uses them a LOT, and justifies the spend for BETTER?

THEN you buy new. And good as can be!

Trying to have matching goods is like investign in either of "sets" of 5C collets or good drills.

Here you are, set by 64th's a tough deadline to hit.. and you tear the s**t out of the only collet in the size or ust the only drill?

Here I am, the job planned in advance, 3 collets or 3 drills if not 10 ordered for it.

The set by 64ths is my emergency fallback. Every damned one of them still in the tube or drill index, separate cabinet entirely from the "working" drawers.

And for long years, already!

Uniformity is not meant to eat your lunch nor add to downtime!

You think I have just ONE mic, caliper, DI.. or "whatever" that could become a "show stopper"?

No Fine Way!

And the used goods were laid-by FIRST! Cost thing. Uncertainty as well.

As you know more, you buy more wisely. Less money wasted that way.

Investing in "good stuff", not trash, is wise, always.

But invest TOO damned much? There's no money left for power or materials.

2CW
 
If the B&S are the slant-line style, try before you buy. I find it easier to mis-read the slant-lines compared to Mits. I prefer the Mits.


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Mits all the way! One caveat, we have some Fowler digital calipers and they are quite good, more than accurate enough for our needs.

I have 8" B&S calipers that are quite good, and the 160 year anniversary 6" dials, but still prefer Mits.
 
Mits all the way! One caveat, we have some Fowler digital calipers and they are quite good, more than accurate enough for our needs.

I have 8" B&S calipers that are quite good, and the 160 year anniversary 6" dials, but still prefer Mits.

That's interesting to me. I've probably replaced 7 pairs of mitutoyo 6" calipers in the last year or two. Maybe I'm buying the budget line for my guys without realizing it. The few brown and sharpe we have floating around are still perfect. Certainly a mic is less prone to failure. But I personally am b&s calipers for life!
 
If the B&S are the slant-line style, try before you buy. I find it easier to mis-read the slant-lines compared to Mits. I prefer the Mits.


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Yeah I've come across a pair or two of slant line in my day, I definitely will never buy them. I've heard they are only available by special order now because nobody likes them.
 
The shop has b&s tools, all good but I hate the slant line mikes.
except for digital calipers (mits) most everything else I have is Starrett with no regrets.

Last I bought was a set of Starrett adjustable parallels. Measures good but the side finish was a big disappointment and I lapped them to avoid be annoyed every time I used them.

I have an 8" Insize caliper I bought at a trade show. Feel was comparable to the Mititoyo but with bigger numbers. Probably 5 years now and just as good as the Mits.


dave
 
I've always been partial to brown and sharpe hand measuring tools. The calipers are significantly more durable and accurate Ive found.

However I'm looking to buy a new set of mics, depth gages and various other hand tools, but brown and sharpe is also significantly more expensive than mitutoyo's version. The question is why? Seems like almost everyone buys mitutoyo these days, is it because they are less expensive? Certainly they are accurate.

Would you, if you were me, just pay the extra $100 each for brown and sharpe, or should I got mitutoyo. I know this topic gets covered every few years, but perhaps someone has some new insight or opinions that might help.

Thanks,
I'm also open to alternative suggestions, I'm not ruling out anything.

In my experience the cost is not that much of a factor unless you realize that down the road I might have just wasted hard earned money. Unless a Brown and Sharpe has a advantage that is worth it then name brand and nostalgia become irrelevant to saving money.

I know Mititoyo and the quality is top notch. Now buying completely American is a good thing although I hear some things are not American made at all. Japan and the U.S. have pretty good trade relations and their car quality has been causing domestic manufacturers to drastically up their game. I consider that a good thing and they have Auto plants here in the US also.

Given the fact that Japan must get most all of its natural resources and make things to make a good living then it is not really a surprise that they do exceedingly well. I respect that. Plus too they are not doing as China has done regarding patents and intellectual property issues. I have heard it explained that they believe nothing that way is owned by anyone so to speak. If that is the case really then anyone who buys or invests there must weigh whether they wish to participate in that arrangement.

If low labor costs are the holy grail there are many countries where it is much lower than China. For one example our former enemy Vietnam. We can work well with them. Funny how all that has changed direction as in how to make a descent living and putting good and plenty of food on the table. It is a change in outlook and for their well-being.
 
That's interesting to me. I've probably replaced 7 pairs of mitutoyo 6" calipers in the last year or two. Maybe I'm buying the budget line for my guys without realizing it. The few brown and sharpe we have floating around are still perfect. Certainly a mic is less prone to failure. But I personally am b&s calipers for life!

On this I also agree. They are very durable and worth considering true. That is a exception for me also.
 
Nothing feels like Etalons, but they all measure the same, so buy whatever you like. I think some of your numbers are wishful thinking, tenths are not that easy to measure truthfully, but whatever floats yer boat.
 
In my experience the cost is not that much of a factor unless you realize that down the road I might have just wasted hard earned money. Unless a Brown and Sharpe has a advantage that is worth it then name brand and nostalgia become irrelevant to saving money.

Is this to say you don't recommend spending money on name brand items? Or are you saying buying cheaper stuff is a waste of money in the long run?
 
Nothing feels like Etalons, but they all measure the same, so buy whatever you like. I think some of your numbers are wishful thinking, tenths are not that easy to measure truthfully, but whatever floats yer boat.

I've played around with some etalon and they are nice, but I'm fairly certain they are the same thing as brown and sharpe these days. I could be wrong.

What makes you say measuring .0001 on a mic is hard? It's what they were designed to do?
 
I've played around with some etalon and they are nice, but I'm fairly certain they are the same thing as brown and sharpe these days. I could be wrong.

What makes you say measuring .0001 on a mic is hard? It's what they were designed to do?


Etalon at one point made a "MicroRapid" micrometer that is one of the finest "analog" micrometers made. It has a precision ground screw that advances 4 times as fast as a regular mic (.100 per rev vs. 025). This makes it near as fast as a slide mic to use and with a wonderful "feel."

It has a large barrel with easy-to-read numbers. The vernier with wide spaced Euro style graduations is easy to read, even for older eyes. It also has the best pressure control system short of a guage - a friction clutch on the barrel and a speeder on the end. They ran about 4x the price of a typical .0001 reading Starrett, B&S, Mitutoyo.

As for measuring .0001 accurately - it IS hard. Not hard to get a reading, but hard to be sure that clean anvils and parts, exact parallelism, temperature effects, screw slop, worn spots on anvils, consistent pressure (a ratchet isn't actually best per some research) and other measuring variables don't put you off a .0001 or two.

The Etalon MicroRapid is no longer available in US sizes - not enough people willing to pay for them. Occassionally a good use one shows up. Last I checked (few years back) a somewhat modified metric design was still available from Hexagon.
 
Is this to say you don't recommend spending money on name brand items? Or are you saying buying cheaper stuff is a waste of money in the long run?

All are brand name items if they are known for top notch quality. They have pretty equal quality-some notable differences. Cheap stuff in our trade is a waste of money if you are going to stay in it. If not doing that then spend nothing on anything.

Yes I have bought brand name. Also I buy the cheap stuff too actually only the items others like to borrow. That way they bust up a cheap tool. I do not lend tools unless I really trust someone to pay for it if they break it.

Hope this helps. Really it is personal choice. I just truely think you should be careful not to waste money. Mititoyo calipers you mentioned the ones you replaced are likely manual are they not? In that case I have bought all Brown and Sharpe because they are far superior to manual Mititoyo. B&S overt often can offer better things in some cases. Asking someone who has already become familiar with using different brands know the ins and outs and generally agree. Not always.
 
What makes you say measuring .0001 on a mic is hard? It's what they were designed to do?
No, they aren't. They'll give you a number, no problem, but whether that number is true or not, that's a different thing.

A tenth is not a large amount. All the temperature requirements aside, mics really aren't that accurate over their range. Maybe a dependable half thou. If you need real tenths, not talking-tenths

Etalon Dial Micrometer

look at the price. And don't forget to air-condition the shop, and leave the parts to temp-soak for twenty-four hours first, and don't touch the mikes, and don't forget to check them closed, full open, and in the middle, and ...

For a real-world example, Jeff Bratton use to do well-known two-stroke cranks, and also the Hirth cranks for some roller-bearing Porsches. He'd measure every single roller and sort them ... tenths mattered.

He used a Pratt & Whitney Supermike ....

IMG_8587_result.jpg


Even a brch has a two-tenths tolerance :)
 
Here is a Golstien for you!

"Nothing feels like Etalons, but they all measure the same, so buy whatever you like. I think some of your numbers are wishful thinking, tenths are not that easy to measure truthfully, but whatever floats yer boat."

Another helpless idiot that thinks if he cant do it, no one else can, anyway, in the out lying islands he is the real deal! got those extended pinky fingers that curl when he needs close tolerances!
The forums new clown!
 
I'm sometimes more amazed when people talk microns here...

It's conditional on whether people are talking in absolute or relative terms, and whether or not they understand the principles of measurement uncertainty, and finally whether or not they have the equipment.

I talk μm quite frequently on here, but in most cases I am talking about comparative measurements rather than absolute sizes. Sometimes I am talking about absolute sizes, but most often there will be qualifiers attached to such a statement.

In most cases when you see someone proudly proclaiming they made such and such part to such and such size within so many microns it's a fantasy, but not always.
 








 
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