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Starrett 199 with 0.0001"/foot precision?

Joined
Jun 13, 2019
I picked up what I believed to be a Starrett 199Z off of eBay a while back and just noticed that it seems to be different than all of the other 199s that I've seen pictures of. Mine has the following markings embossed into the top plastic cover:

THE L.S. STARRETT CO. ATHOL, MASS. U.S.A. (above the vial)

1 DIVISION = .0001 IN./1 FOOT (below the vial)

Every other picture I've seen of 199 levels shows the precision to be .0005"/foot. I was a bit concerned that I may have purchased a counterfeit so I emailed Starrett and asked them but they didn't have an answer for me. They said that over their 180 year lifespan that a lot of stuff went unrecorded and it may have been built as a special many years ago.

I filled in the embossed lettering with a white paint stick right after I got the level but i certainly didn't change the 5 to a 1.

Has anyone else ever seen a 199 like this?
IMG_3649.jpgIMG_3650.jpg
 
i believe Starrett will make custom or non standard tools if asked. somebody could easily asked for more sensitive level thinking its better
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in my experience too sensitive is more if a problem. if something off scale you cannot get a ideal how much. is it .0005 or .0010 per foot off. this effects what you do working. Starrett 98 level at .005"/ft often used for measuring for shims or getting stuff in the ballpark or in range.
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i have 8" square frame level with .0002"/ft vial and ended up bolting on a extra Starrett 98 vial at .005/ft to it. get more use out of the .005/ft level vial and until machine part very close with .005/ft vial you are not in range of the main vial at .0002"/ft to get a reading
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its like using a 1/100" ruler or scale. sounds good until you actually use it and find 1/50" graduation is easier
 
Definitely a counterfeit. I'd like to add it to my modest collection of counterfeit Starrett tools and would gladly and generously offer you $50.00 :)

Full disclosure: I don't actually have a modest collection of counterfeit Starrett tools.

David
 
Do you have a gage block set, and a nice, level granite plate? Most sets include a .1000 and a .1001 block, try setting them a foot apart on the plate and seeing what reading you get.

But dang, that fine a reading (if true) makes it an awfully fussy level to use.
 
Do you have a gage block set, and a nice, level granite plate? Most sets include a .1000 and a .1001 block, try setting them a foot apart on the plate and seeing what reading you get.

But dang, that fine a reading (if true) makes it an awfully fussy level to use.

I have a granite plate, but I haven’t leveled it and I don’t have a gauge block set yet but it’s on my list. When I first got it I put a sheet of paper under both sides and added to the low side until the bubble was almost centered. Pulling one sheet out of the other side results in the bubble going off the scale to the other side.
 
There's something funny if you can level a .0001'/ft level with paper, which is in the neighborhood of .004". Aluminum foil will get you into the .00063" thickness per layer range as long as you keep it unwrinkled. I like Milland's suggestion.
 
I've found that the key to using things like paper to make it work is not to stack the paper higher or lower necessarily but instead to shift the paper towards and away from the center of the level.
 
feeler gage thickness stock
.0010"
.0012" (.03mm)
.0015"
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obviously .0012+.0012 AND .0010+.0015 at each end is a .0001" difference, obviously they need to be clean. most shops have rolls of thickness gage for precision setups
 
if you want to test it more for cheap you can try some cigarette rolling papers. They are typically .001 thick and more uniform than notebook paper.
 
I scored of a set of gauge blocks on eBay last night, hopefully I'll have some concrete answers soon! Thanks for everyone's help!
 
We used to scrape those levels flat on the bottom for machine rebuilding as Starrett made them with a radius on the bottom, the comment about sliding paper on the bottom to move the bubble makes me think this is so, Coincidence vial from a Jig transit or Striding level is accurate to one second or 1" in 200,000" , a .0001 vial will show 1 second at 20 ", these are hard to level with however as to many factors enter in when using them, temperature being the largest, technique being the other.
 
There has been threads here on those levels, they are scraped with a couple of tenths concave on the bottom. A Starrett tech said the concave was for possible heat expansion in normal use for regular machine leveling.
In one thread Forrest Addy mentioned re scraping his 3 199 levels flat for machine re building, but they are better left alone for regular machine leveling because the bottom surface may not lay flat at temperatures other then they were scraped at.
The machine I need to be leveled the most is my Moore jig borer, it is very top heavy and tall, if it is out a little on level, the upper column bends, and shows a couple of tenths out checking the tram.
The best time to buy the 199 on ebay is in jan or feb, they are nearly double the price now, its so much easier using two of those levels then having to keep moving one.
 
We used to scrape those levels flat on the bottom for machine rebuilding as Starrett made them with a radius on the bottom, the comment about sliding paper on the bottom to move the bubble makes me think this is so, Coincidence vial from a Jig transit or Striding level is accurate to one second or 1" in 200,000" , a .0001 vial will show 1 second at 20 ", these are hard to level with however as to many factors enter in when using them, temperature being the largest, technique being the other.

I was blessed in buying both my Scherr and my Lufkin from previous owners who were very GOOD scrapers. We agreed dead-flat and did that. But it had nowt to to with temperature at all.

The reality in assessing a machine-tool is that even if well-equipped we do not have an infinite collection of LENGTHS in our levels. Accordingly, is it HARD to "choose" or even predict WHERE a given size of level is going to find blocks, parallels, or ground dowels UNDER it.

And we do not want to be finding the bubble moves a tad at different positioning points.

So "flat" rather than relieved toward the center might not "hinge" the way some would think best. It might not be as resistant to wear of the sole in use as some might thing wiser. Not that it GETS the wear a straight edge might get with all the rubbing of hi-spot, etc. Levels just don't. Usually.

But "flat" it is simply less likely to lead one astray by even a LITTLE bit, even if tired and weary.

Forrest had it right. Dresden as well.

All I know is what the Bigger Kids tell me.

It's enough!

:D
 
"in my experience too sensitive is more if a problem. if something off scale you cannot get a ideal how much. is it .0005 or .0010 per foot off. this effects what you do working. Starrett 98 level at .005"/ft often used for measuring for shims or getting stuff in the ballpark or in range."

I have coincidence levels on my Jig Transits, they are one second vials, that is one inch in 200,000 inches or .00006/ft, the same problem exists with to much sensitivity, when aligning / tramming equipment, start with simpler means before bringing out the ultra sensitive stuff.
 
If that is a true .0001/ft vial, it will be so fussy its near unusable. The bubble will want to separate. It will also take a long time to settle, and the radiant heat from your body will cause the bubble to move. At this sensitivity, electronic are far more usable.
 








 
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