Thread Ring Gauge Questions

[Hi-Tech Redneck]

Hi All, 1st post here so bear with me....

I've been doing a little research on thread ring gauges and unless I've missed something, what I've found is that there are basically 3 types or styles of ring gauge, Solid, Southern Style and AGD.

Southern Style seems to be the most expensive, My question is, is it really that much better.

Currently the company I work with uses the AGD style but on some of the most common sizes the gauge doesn't live very long(in some cases less than 6 mos.). I'm new to this Metrology and Machining world, but I'm not so sure I believe a different style would increase lifespan. I'm more apt to believe maybe the gauge maker/ supplier is using inferior material to make the gauges.

Just looking for your thoughts on different styles, different coatings, Makers/ suppliers...etc....Thx

 

[Gordon B. Clarke]

Hi All, 1st post here so bear with me....

I've been doing a little research on thread ring gauges and unless I've missed something, what I've found is that there are basically 3 types or styles of ring gauge, Solid, Southern Style and AGD.

Southern Style seems to be the most expensive, My question is, is it really that much better.

Currently the company I work with uses the AGD style but on some of the most common sizes the gauge doesn't live very long(in some cases less than 6 mos.). I'm new to this Metrology and Machining world, but I'm not so sure I believe a different style would increase lifespan. I'm more apt to believe maybe the gauge maker/ supplier is using inferior material to make the gauges.

Just looking for your thoughts on different styles, different coatings, Makers/ suppliers...etc....Thx

Huh? I've always thought there were only two types of thread "ring" gauges. BTW not to be confused with those that actually measure.

Go/NoGo ring gauges and this type


Of course there is the type that can be "adjusted" by using a screw so yes, there are 3 types. I suppose the "adjustable" type would be good for unusual tolerances but would require a special calibration.

As to "expensive" and "best" I suppose it really boils down to what you intend using it for.

 

[Eric M]

Hi All, 1st post here so bear with me....

I've been doing a little research on thread ring gauges and unless I've missed something, what I've found is that there are basically 3 types or styles of ring gauge, Solid, Southern Style and AGD.

Southern Style seems to be the most expensive, My question is, is it really that much better.

Currently the company I work with uses the AGD style but on some of the most common sizes the gauge doesn't live very long(in some cases less than 6 mos.). I'm new to this Metrology and Machining world, but I'm not so sure I believe a different style would increase lifespan. I'm more apt to believe maybe the gauge maker/ supplier is using inferior material to make the gauges.

Just looking for your thoughts on different styles, different coatings, Makers/ suppliers...etc....Thx

Here's an explanation of the differences between the "Southern" style, and the "AGD" style. They are both adjustable, in that they can be re-set with an appropriate Set Plug as they wear. http://gsgage.com/content/technical_resources/comaprison_of_s.html
The solid thread ring gages are probably ISO-style (metric), and ISO does things a little differently. Read on: http://greensladeandcompany.com/wp-... Thread Gages Are Have Diffeences _Temp._.pdf
I hope these articles help.

Here's another article comparing and contrasting the different styles of thread ring gages: http://www.ring-plug-thread-gages.com/ti-Solid-vs-Adjustable-Thread-Ring-Gages.htm

 

[Gordon B. Clarke]

Here's an explanation of the differences between the "Southern" style, and the "AGD" style. They are both adjustable, in that they can be re-set with an appropriate Set Plug as they wear. http://gsgage.com/content/technical_resources/comaprison_of_s.html
The solid thread ring gages are probably ISO-style (metric), and ISO does things a little differently. Read on: http://greensladeandcompany.com/wp-... Thread Gages Are Have Diffeences _Temp._.pdf
I hope these articles help.

Here's another article comparing and contrasting the different styles of thread ring gages: http://www.ring-plug-thread-gages.com/ti-Solid-vs-Adjustable-Thread-Ring-Gages.htm

Informative. I never knew that "adjustable" thread ring gauges were popular in the USA. I've seen a few in my lifetime here in Europe but never could understand why anyone would buy them. That of course is a personal opinion.

As you mention any ring gauge that can be adjusted using a screw will no longer be round and thus require a setting plug gauge. These are probably more expensive than the ring gauge.

My advice? If you are in mass production use not only thread rings but also measure pitch diameter (aim for the middle of the tolerance and avoid problems) when setting up. Just making a one off or only a few? Probably cheaper just to measure pitch diameter.

 

[Kaszub]

Just looking for your thoughts on different styles, different coatings, Makers/ suppliers...etc....Thx

Ever seen Hemco brand Gage's? They are chrome plated and they last long time great for production jobs Just my $.02

 

[Gordon B. Clarke]

Ever seen Hemco brand Gage's? They are chrome plated and they last long time great for production jobs Just my $.02

I've never seen one or heard of Hemco but went to their home page to see more. What I'm wondering is how I can get an idea of what they cost compared to "standard" thread gauges without having to contact them to get a quote.

I can understand that a non standard thread gauge will cost more than a standard one but, assuming Henco are more expensive than other types, then can you give me an idea on how much more expensive?

I can see the advantage of having a thread gauge harder than normal when the use is frequent. That makes me wonder how many have calibration intervals based on use rather than on time? Some gauges are used once every blue moon while others are used daily.

 

[Hi-Tech Redneck]

As a matter of fact, Yes...We purchased a brand new chrome plated 1"-12 UN made by Hemco back in July 2016. 3 months later it's shot....

That's what led me to start this thread. I realize this gauge gets used, sometimes hundreds of times per day for days on end, but even so it should last longer than 3 months I would think.

In the past the company used GSG Southern Style gauges exclusively and they seemed to last forever. A few years back we slowly started changing over to the AGD Style for cost savings. Ever since the gauges have worn out, what I'd consider to be prematurely.

Like I mentioned earlier, I'm green in the metrology and machining field but have been tasked to find the root cause of the problem.

For the most part, the folks using the gauges are the same as always. The Guy verifying and calibrating the gauges is the same. I'm trying to figure out why the AGD style won't last. Maybe the setting plug being of a different Mfr than the gauge is the issue but I honestly wouldn't think so...

 

[Hi-Tech Redneck]

I've never seen one or heard of Hemco but went to their home page to see more. What I'm wondering is how I can get an idea of what they cost compared to "standard" thread gauges without having to contact them to get a quote.

I can understand that a non standard thread gauge will cost more than a standard one but, assuming Henco are more expensive than other types, then can you give me an idea on how much more expensive?

I can see the advantage of having a thread gauge harder than normal when the use is frequent. That makes me wonder how many have calibration intervals based on use rather than on time? Some gauges are used once every blue moon while others are used daily.

I can't speak for all suppliers, but the supplier we use charges approx. $200 for a Hemco 1"-12UN Chrome plated gauge...and Yes, our verification/calibration frequency is based on use...the lesser used sizes are verified yearly. Our gauges that are used daily are verified every 3 months

 

[Kaszub]

From wear the only thing I can think of is that you guys are forcing your gage's on.

1 1/16-18 UNEF 3A Go/NoGo Hemco ring gage's from my supplier about $390.00

 

[Gordon B. Clarke]

As a matter of fact, Yes...We purchased a brand new chrome plated 1"-12 UN made by Hemco back in July 2016. 3 months later it's shot....

That's what led me to start this thread. I realize this gauge gets used, sometimes hundreds of times per day for days on end, but even so it should last longer than 3 months I would think.

In the past the company used GSG Southern Style gauges exclusively and they seemed to last forever. A few years back we slowly started changing over to the AGD Style for cost savings. Ever since the gauges have worn out, what I'd consider to be prematurely.

Like I mentioned earlier, I'm green in the metrology and machining field but have been tasked to find the root cause of the problem.

For the most part, the folks using the gauges are the same as always. The Guy verifying and calibrating the gauges is the same. I'm trying to figure out why the AGD style won't last. Maybe the setting plug being of a different Mfr than the gauge is the issue but I honestly wouldn't think so...

I'm going to enlarge on Kaszub's post.

I absolutely agree with him on that some (all?) are forcing the thread gage in/on. That's why I wrote earlier on in this thread that when using the same thread gauge often (suggesting mass production or frequent use) then the thread pitch diameter should be measured and the machine set to as close as the middle of the pitch diameter as possible. It really is that simple to avoid problems.

a UNF 1"-12 thread was mentioned. Using that as an example and assuming 2A/2B tolerances then the pitch diameter tolerances are 2A = 0.0059" and 2B = 0.0076". Whoever is setting up doesn't seem to realize just how big those tolerances are and makes the threads too close to the tolerance limit.

Suggestion: MAKE YOUR LIFE SIMPLER AND MEASURE A FEW AND SEE IF I'M (and Kaszub) RIGHT.

Maybe this will help:

 

[Gordon B. Clarke]

I'm going to enlarge on Kaszub's post.

I absolutely agree with him on that some (all?) are forcing the thread gage in/on. That's why I wrote earlier on in this thread that when using the same thread gauge often (suggesting mass production or frequent use) then the thread pitch diameter should be measured and the machine set to as close as the middle of the pitch diameter as possible. It really is that simple to avoid problems.

a UNF 1"-12 thread was mentioned. Using that as an example and assuming 2A/2B tolerances then the pitch diameter tolerances are 2a = 0.0059" and 2B = 0.0076". Whoever is setting up doesn't seem to realize just how big those tolerances are and makes the threads too close to the tolerance limit.

Suggestion: MAKE YOUR LIFE SIMPLER AND MEASURE A FEW AND SEE IF I'M (and Kaszub) RIGHT.

Maybe this will help:

View attachment 184521

Almost forgot. wear is also dependent on material type. SS can be very hard on thread gauges - ESPECIALLY WHEN TRYING TO FORCE.

 

[Hi-Tech Redneck]

Almost forgot. wear is also dependent on material type. SS can be very hard on thread gauges - ESPECIALLY WHEN TRYING TO FORCE.

Thank You Sir for all your suggestions. I'll definately be measuring the PD with wires and most of the material is IH Bar...no SS to my knowledge...

 

[DanielG]

I agree with Gordon that measuring the PD is going to be best for setup. Are you measuring a bunch of the same size? It sounds like it if you're wearing out a good thread gage in three months. You might consider looking at a Tri-Roll gage. They need to be setup for each size, but they'll quickly show you where the pitch diameter lies within (or outside) the tolerance band. Once they're set up, they're faster than a ring gage as well. This would kill two birds with one stone. For the best results, you use two of them. If I remember correctly, you set up one with two rolls and it measures pitch diameter, and the other has three rolls and measures form. That way you check pretty much everything in two quick steps.

My only thought on why AGD gages are wearing out faster than Southern-style is that as you adjust an AGD gage in to account for wear, it's going out-of-round enough that they can't pass it. Whereas the Southern-style allows more adjustment before it's shot.