What CMM software do you use?

StreetSpeed · Nov 21, 2008

Just wondering what software you folks use for your CMMs? I used PC-DMIS and every time I use it I think "why can't I do this" or "this seems to complicated..." etc. It seems un-intuitive and clunky to me. It's the only software I've ever used and I was trained on at the Hexagon Metrology class in RI. However, we may be in the market in the not-so-distant future for a DCC CMM and if that were to happen then perhaps I'd want to have used some other software packages for reference. SO, just wondering what you all use and why. Perhaps I'd be able to download a demo just to mess with the interface and what not. Thanks.

mboucher · Nov 21, 2008

I use Zeiss' Calypso right now but I did work for Mitutoyo and have used their GEOMeasure and COSMOS softwares.

Mark

Holescreek · Nov 21, 2008

Mitutoyo came out with a new software last year called MCosmos that seemed very promising. Our company bought 9 seats and sent most of us to a 5 day training class at Mit in Cincinatti. It has some really cool features that allow you to see a 3D model as you program. The one big drawback, and the reason we no longer use it has to do with editing and restarting after a crash. Not sure how many tens of thousands of dollars we have in unused software but we're back to Geomeasure.

We have dedicated fixturing set up on Rayco plates on 5 of 6 CMMs in the lab. All of the programs are bar coded so that the machine operators can bring in their parts, set them on the fixtures and scan the barcodes before they walk away and the machines run on their own.

I think Mit intended this software to be able to compete with the PC Demis aftermarket software. I'd stay away from it until they get it fixed. -Mike

Joe788 · Nov 21, 2008

I've got a Brown and Sharpe ONE, with PCDMIS CAD. I never found the time to go to the training, but I will at some point. I had a very competent sales guy who used to be in applications, and he gave me a demo for a few hours on the machine, and that was enough to get me rolling. The first couple snags I ran into, I just called him up and he walked me through it.

I agree that it's not the most intuitive software. I'd assume none of the metrology software developers have the resources or customer base to really build something easy, and "good." A person can sit down in front of Solidworks, learn the basics fairly quickly, and expand on those basics in a short time. The software is easy to use, and the help files actually help.

Sit someone new down in front of PCDMIS, GEOMeasure, or Calypso, and you'll just get a, "Huh??"

mboucher · Nov 21, 2008

Holescreek said:
Mitutoyo came out with a new software last year called MCosmos that seemed very promising. Mike

MCOSMOS came out about 5 years ago. The confusion is that when the U.S. market was selling GEOMeasure Europe and Canada were selling COSMOS. When the U.S. was moving to a CAD based software there were attempts to develop their own instead of using COSMOS. Mitutoyo tried CADMeasure a 'handshake' application using Mechanical Desktop. The problem with this was Autodesk came out with versions every year and you had to play catch up.

About 8 years ago CT Labs, Mitutoyo's software development lab, in City of Industry, CA, developed their own CAD based software to replace CADMeasure. This was a ACIS based program and was nicely done. The working name of this program was Bison but sold as CAD V3. They sold one copy and Japan came back and dictated that COSMOS was the official software for every market. Brochures were printed then it was decided to change the name to MCOSMOS.

This software was written in Germany and follows a lot of this logic. Yes, it is true it is modal and after a crash or simple editing you have to run through the entire program to get back to where you were. Each piece is like a seperate program like Probe Builder, etc... This software ahs been improved over the years. Quite a bit of the CAD V3 features where added making it more graphically oriented as opposed to the way COSMOS used to be.

COSMOS or MCOMOS is very capable software but yes the modal aspect can be frustrating at times.

Sometimes you can't beat the old code versions of software though like GEOMeasure.

Sorry for the long post

Mark Boucher

Holescreek · Nov 21, 2008

Mark,

You have a better handle on the situation than I do, that's for sure. FWIW I liked Mcosmos from the programing standpoint.

Mitutoyo rep came in and told management that they were phasing out Geomeasure completely and we had to switch to Mcosmos if we wanted to receive support and updates. Then after we blew the budget another rep said that the phase out wasn't true. One of our people spent 6 months rewriting hundreds of floor programs in Mcosmos for the day we would "flip the switch" and run the new software on every CMM. We still use Geomeasure. I guess if you aren't allowed to sell CMMs in the US you have to make money selling something. -Mike

RJT · Nov 26, 2008

I have a customer who has 2 Brown and Sharpe contouring CMM's running PC demis and 2 Zeiss contouring CMM's running Calipso. They have separate operator / programmers. Each one says his is the best. I belive they are both excellent. For some reason Zeiss has more wow appeal, maybe just thier marketing, but when it comes down to no questions asked inspection, when some one says it was checked on thier Zeiss, it is usually the end of the story. I don't think you could go wrong with either. RJT

MJBOLSTER · Dec 5, 2008

I'm still learning Pc Dmis (3 yrs now- I'm not learning very fast- I'm just a few yrs from retirement) and the "pissy demon" definitely has me by the throat
on a daily basis. I have no choice of software. I have no plans of giving up
though the stress may kill me. :angry:

I think so much of the decision would involve how close your tolerances are...
I have heard of no better all around package than Pc Dmis though.
Not much help, I know.
MJB

67Cuda · Dec 24, 2008

PC-DIMUS will do 95% of what ever your measuring. If you want to have a mental breakdown try using Quindos. That will measure "What ever you want", but it's a bear to get your mind around.

Tom

gearmac · Dec 28, 2008

I use two different navigational software in our Zeiss CMM, one is UMESS and the other is Calypso. I have used UMESS for five years and Calypso for two years. Calypso might be turn out as the more user-friendly software in the two.

GUNDOC_1 · Jan 6, 2009

CMM Software

MJBOLSTER Wrote:
"I'm still learning Pc Dmis (3 yrs now- I'm not learning very fast- I'm just a few yrs from retirement) and the "pissy demon" definitely has me by the throat
on a daily basis. I have no choice of software. I have no plans of giving up
though the stress may kill me. "

I programmed LK CMMs with CMES for nearly 14 years, had to find another job and am now using CAMIO for the last 2 years. Camio uses a CAD model and converts to DMIS so I can relate to your plight. I am getting better every day though with more practice.

billystein · Jan 7, 2009

3 words verisurf,verisurf,verisurf

verisurf is the leader in model based definition.
It is designed to work on many inspection machines. cmm,faro arm,laser tracker.
it is graphics based and not difficult to learn.
the think that first impressed me was when I did the alignment function the probe appeared on the screen in direct relation to the surface model. when you move the cmm you can see the probe move over your cad model.
it has routines for reverse engineering and pretty good report generators.
it also has nice features for translating coordinate systems.
boeing uses it and also recommends it for many of their vendors.
you can check it out at verisurf.com
it aint cheap but this kind of power is very impressive.

billy

Peddler · Jan 9, 2009

billystein said:
verisurf is the leader in model based definition.
It is designed to work on many inspection machines. cmm,faro arm,laser tracker.
it is graphics based and not difficult to learn.
the think that first impressed me was when I did the alignment function the probe appeared on the screen in direct relation to the surface model. when you move the cmm you can see the probe move over your cad model.
it has routines for reverse engineering and pretty good report generators.
it also has nice features for translating coordinate systems.
boeing uses it and also recommends it for many of their vendors.
you can check it out at verisurf.com
it aint cheap but this kind of power is very impressive.

billy

Except for the soul business reference, you just described PC-DMIS.

Joe788 · Jan 10, 2009

Peddler said:
Except for the soul business reference, you just described PC-DMIS.

I was thinking that exact same thing!

Andris Skulte · Mar 30, 2009

At work (AS9100 aerospace machine shop) we've got a 19 year old Mitutoyo manual CMM running QC 5000, and I've got a 4' Faro Gold that we'd like to use here as well. Thinking about getting a Zeiss down the road w/ Calypso.

Ideal workflow would be:
Receive customer drawings & specs (still paper based, unfortunately!)
Create part program in Mastercam along with GD&T
Machine part
Inspect parts GD&T requirements using either CMM or Faro (and have to integrate manual metrology measurements in there too for the +-.00025" tolerances.)
Create inspection report
Somehow database it...

Verisurf seems pretty perfect for this, since it'd be cross platform and seems to run everything. Any downside to that vs Zeiss' native Calypso software? We're running Metronics QC5000 on our CMM currently, and I'm using Rhino3D at home w/ the Faro arm, so nothing really works together at this point.

Peddler · Mar 30, 2009

PC-DMIS can also run your machine tools. Pay attention the next time you go to an IMTS!

REDDING · May 8, 2009

Actually

Peddler said:
PC-DMIS can also run your machine tools. Pay attention the next time you go to an IMTS!

That is a "broad" statement, which isn't exactly accurate.

Peddler · May 8, 2009

REDDING said:
That is a "broad" statement, which isn't exactly accurate.

But you have to admit if you were there, that besides scanning and measuring using arms and tradititional CMM's and all of the other things PC-DMIS software does well... it was indeed running a machine and making chips at IMTS. Is that its forte? Not even close, but a software systems that runs a variety of systems would be a big plus in many plants.

REDDING · May 8, 2009

Peddler said:
But you have to admit if you were there, that besides scanning and measuring using arms and tradititional CMM's and all of the other things PC-DMIS software does well... it was indeed running a machine and making chips at IMTS. Is that its forte? Not even close, but a software systems that runs a variety of systems would be a big plus in many plants.

I would have to agree, but our fear is that the NX bug would strike again. NX used to be known as UG (Unigraphics) and was a top of the line CAD program. A few years go by, some new ownership, and viola - Now it does everything under the sun - CAD, CAM, CDAE, FEA, CDP, etc. The problem is it doesn't do everything well anymore. It has been turned into a somewhat costly and certainly unstable MS Windows program. You don't go to a butcher for bread, so why buy an application under the same guise. Just saying ....

Tonytn36 · May 9, 2009

RJT said:
For some reason Zeiss has more wow appeal, maybe just thier marketing, but when it comes down to no questions asked inspection, when some one says it was checked on thier Zeiss, it is usually the end of the story. I don't think you could go wrong with either. RJT

We have quite a few Zeiss CMM's, with Calypso software, I don't program them, but the guys that do really like the software. These things amaze me. They are extremely accurate and repeatable. They have a proven 8% Gauge R&R on a ±3.5' angle tolerance over a 3 mm distance. Just to put that in perspective, that's roughly a +/- 3 micron rise/fall over 3 mm. That's why folks don't question the results.

What CMM software do you use?

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