Why do you need a 3a GO gauge to measure a plated thread? - Page 3
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  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ox View Post
    I don't recall ever giving a tol at all?
    REF.: ASME B1.1
    If no tolerance is given on an internal unified thread then it is 2B and on an external unified thread 2A.

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Delw View Post
    Not to change the subject or anything

    but thread gages are intended to be used to check for functional ability , thread wires are used to check the pd as they cant check anything else.
    you still need a comparator for checking thread form and root rads.

    while you can check your thread via wires it may not go on the go gages or be tight for a few reasons.
    the biggest reason is guys run too big of a root rad or it breaks down during cutting. a thread gage has that built in so if your root rad is over sized it will be tight or not go.

    other things are run out if your PD runs out too much you'll be hitting the od of your thread making it tight in some spots.(basically your thread depth on one side of the part is way out to the other side of the part.
    I still use wires and thread gages everyday as well as checking the root rad and the profile on the comparator. with out doing so you cant guarantee your threads are to spec via wires OR gages

    now on work where there is no tolerance on roots profile etc etc

    try to check a J thread( ie specific Larger root rad mainly in aerospace work) with a normal thread gage. it wont work even though everything is perfect on the thread. a J-thread gage has a bigger minor dia on the gage itself too allow for the bigger rad than a normal thread gage thats the only difference.
    threaddenom.jpg

    Measuring d and D1 on a thread is easy and is something that should always be done. Measuring d2 and D2 isn't complicated although most methods for measuring D2 are expensive. Measuring d1 and D isn't hard either although only few do so.

    If the threading tool isn't chipped or looks worn then normally measuring the pitch diameter should be enough. You are of course correct that "J" threads have a larger radius than standard threads. I have made and supplied thread inserts to a few customers that wanted to measure d1 and D.

    http://f-m-s.dk/D%20and%20d1.pdf

    A few years ago while visiting a large company I said to the owner that the thread didn't exist that I couldn't measure PD on. OK an internal diameter under 1/4" and a pitch less than 48 TPI were my limitations.
    He smiled and said "You can't measure PD on a Buttress thread."

    I replied that I'd never made inserts for Buttress threads but made a sketch of how I'd do it.

    He nodded his head, smiled and said "Yes you can".

    Since then I've made several Buttress thread inserts both for external and internal. Principle shown below.

    http://f-m-s.dk/Buttress%20Thread%20Measurement.pdf

    Re my "discussion" with Ox then if he doesn't like my product for whatever reason then of course it's his prerogative. Mocking or ridiculing something he knows nothing about or has tried isn't right and especially not from a moderator. There are many PM members that are good at what they do and they should (IMO) be encouraged, not put down.

    A thread and a post by a member and the late RJ Newbould (moderator) very much appreciated.

    Something that worked for a change!

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gordon B. Clarke View Post
    threaddenom.jpg

    If the threading tool isn't chipped or looks worn then normally measuring the pitch diameter should be enough.
    Should be but fact is, Its not enough and could cost a company alot of time and money in scrap. Ive scrapped parts because I have trusted wires only or I have trusted gages only. Ive seen profiles go to crap because of the part flexing, vibration on the barfeed operation transferring to the part, seen threads milled that were off center from the major or minor, but yet the PD still measured in tol.
    for doing class thread Correctly you have to check all the thread every aspect of it other wise you can scrap threads. then not to mention whos set of eyes is looking at the insert sitting on a tool inside a machine.

    Alot of this has to do with the type of parts A shop runs, aerospace work will be far more stringent on every aspect of the thread, commercial work depending on the type and whos it for wont really care as long as it fits the mating thread.

    I'm a dick on threads, I wont run them unless I have a set of gages either supplied buy the customer or myself, even though I check them optically and over wires.. Ive made my own thread go gages so to speak but only to check functional-ability on bigger dias like 2" and above.

    Unless there special's I usually eat the cost of gages cause that way I always have them for the next job that uses the same thread.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Delw View Post
    Should be but fact is, Its not enough and could cost a company alot of time and money in scrap. Ive scrapped parts because I have trusted wires only or I have trusted gages only. Ive seen profiles go to crap because of the part flexing, vibration on the barfeed operation transferring to the part, seen threads milled that were off center from the major or minor, but yet the PD still measured in tol.
    for doing class thread Correctly you have to check all the thread every aspect of it other wise you can scrap threads. then not to mention whos set of eyes is looking at the insert sitting on a tool inside a machine.

    Alot of this has to do with the type of parts A shop runs, aerospace work will be far more stringent on every aspect of the thread, commercial work depending on the type and whos it for wont really care as long as it fits the mating thread.

    I'm a dick on threads, I wont run them unless I have a set of gages either supplied buy the customer or myself, even though I check them optically and over wires.. Ive made my own thread go gages so to speak but only to check functional-ability on bigger dias like 2" and above.

    Unless there special's I usually eat the cost of gages cause that way I always have them for the next job that uses the same thread.
    Sounds a bit much but I suppose it very muh depends on what threads you are making and to who for what.

    I can't think of anything that covers "every aspect of it" but of course some threads are more important than others.

    The most economical way I can think of to make a thread as near perfect as possible (who could afford perfect?) with a 99.9% chance of being excellent is by combining pitch diameter measurement and using a Go thread plug or ring gauge. Again not measuring OD on an external thread and hole diameter on an internal thread is daft as both are so easy to measure. Before even measuring if there is a "flat" on the thread a "red light" should start flashing. Surprising how many I've heard say that going below OD tolerance on an external thread means less wear on their cutting tool and vice versa (above tolerance) with internal.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gordon B. Clarke View Post

    Re my "discussion" with Ox then if he doesn't like my product for whatever reason then of course it's his prerogative. Mocking or ridiculing something he knows nothing about or has tried isn't right and especially not from a moderator. There are many PM members that are good at what they do and they should (IMO) be encouraged, not put down.

    You have missed the boat many times in this thread it seems.

    A) I didn't ask for any means to measure anything.
    Only agreeing that - yes, most of us (from my experience anyhow) "Guage" our threads as opposed to measure them.
    But have no clue how you think that we are putz's for dooing so, and to think that we make threads all day long, and have no clue of the the effects of the plating process is simply ridiculous.

    Maybe you are the thread expert, but I'm sure that I have made a whole lot more of them than you have, and I understand "wiggle".


    2) I was NOT mocking your product.
    I did state that it really doesn't matter what you have for sale on the other side of the world, when my app is on my machine, here, today.
    I made my own guage, as many others have to doo at times.
    Considering your product beside a "Guagemaster" product is worthy discussion, for sometime when someone is interested in buying one.

    3) I asked what it would take to have bought the necessary components for the app - since you were so involved. The question was valid for future ref.

    4) You obviously don't realize it, but I am one of the closets things to an ally that you have on this site.
    Just b/c I agree with [at least] 99% of the others here that we don't need to read any more about how great your health care is yonder - doesn't mean that I think that your contribution here is not valid otherwise.


    -------------------------

    Think Snow Eh!
    Ox

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ox View Post
    You have missed the boat many times in this thread it seems.

    A) I didn't ask for any means to measure anything.
    Only agreeing that - yes, most of us (from my experience anyhow) "Guage" our threads as opposed to measure them.
    But have no clue how you think that we are putz's for dooing so, and to think that we make threads all day long, and have no clue of the the effects of the plating process is simply ridiculous.

    Maybe you are the thread expert, but I'm sure that I have made a whole lot more of them than you have, and I understand "wiggle".


    2) I was NOT mocking your product.
    I did state that it really doesn't matter what you have for sale on the other side of the world, when my app is on my machine, here, today.
    I made my own guage, as many others have to doo at times.
    Considering your product beside a "Guagemaster" product is worthy discussion, for sometime when someone is interested in buying one.

    3) I asked what it would take to have bought the necessary components for the app - since you were so involved. The question was valid for future ref.

    4) You obviously don't realize it, but I am one of the closets things to an ally that you have on this site.
    Just b/c I agree with [at least] 99% of the others here that we don't need to read any more about how great your health care is yonder - doesn't mean that I think that your contribution here is not valid otherwise.

    Ox
    "Missed the boat"? I regarded the thread subject as discussed finished and added what I thought was information.

    Ad A) Again intended as information from me. If what I write makes you think I regard you or anyone else as a "putz" then it's not intentional. My knowledge of threads isn't just theoretical and I might just have made more in my lifetime than you.
    It might just surprise you how many don't know the implications from plating.

    ad 2) Your choice of words, to me at least, read as though you were mocking my product. "Toy" and "pawning" don't sound good. As to "the other side of the world" then it is true but if you are in the middle of something, run into a problem that needs fixing "here and now" then nobody can really help but yourself.

    Ad 3) You didn't ask. It took several posts before I knew your thread diameter and depth. I've nothing in stock for that but am certain I could figure something out. OTOH if I knew what the typical threads were you made were (external and internal) then I could make you an offer so you'd be ready for most (never everything) of what you do.

    ad 4) I didn't realise I had to have allies. Sounds as if I have enemies. I've never written that the healthcare system we (Denmark) has is better than what you have in the USA. What I have written is how the system we have works and costs as it does in most countries in the world. My own (worst) experience was 4 weeks in intensive care in hospital and 8 weeks rehab. At no time was money or insurance ever a subject. I pay taxes for that as does everyone else. Again it's just information but some do see it as criticism and those that do that seem to be firmly convinced that everything is better in the USA. There are many things in the USA to be envious about but I don't regard your healthcare system as one of them. OTOH I've no intention of trying to change it. Mission Impossible.


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