Zeiss ScanMax, portable CMM for shop floor use.
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  1. #1
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    Default Zeiss ScanMax, portable CMM for shop floor use.

    I just bought a Zeiss ScanMax portable CMM. It is specifically made to withstand the rigors of shop floor use/abuse.

    Anyone here familiar with this product? Heres the Zeiss website info. http://www.zeiss.com/imt

    I can't get the PDF files to download.

    I am trying to find out weight & dimensions.This info would be helpfull before going to pick it up.

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    You lucky bastid. I ran one at a show, and I've wanted one ever since. I'm sure you could haul it in a pickup, I recall it being about 30X50X60 or so, how specific do you need to be on the weight?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Spud View Post
    I can't get the PDF files to download.
    That's because they want your name and contact info before they let you see the documents.

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    Only pickup available for rent is a full size 1/2 Ton crew cab short box. It doesn't look like it will exceed P/U capacity but then again CMMs tend be very heavy.

    Any special precautions/rigging/hauling needs seeing as this may be a delicate item. Securing with ratchet straps , a bad idea? I want to lay it down, is this ok?

    Mudflap
    Do you recall what they cost? Mine looks identical but the vertical pillar holding the articulating arm and the computer box in the base are red instead of the current white colour.

    I had assumed the link I provided earlier went straight to the Scan max page.Its under production measuring.


    Hesstool
    I downloaded the PDF but it doesn't mention weight.

    I did find the below site mentioning the machine makes use of Carbon Fiber reinforced plastics and ceramics to keep weight down and max workpiece weight is 150kgs (332 lbs). Accuracy to 2 um and repeatability to 1 um.

    http://www.autofieldguide.com/articles/040003.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by Spud View Post
    Only pickup available for rent is a full size 1/2 Ton crew cab short box. It doesn't look like it will exceed P/U capacity but then again CMMs tend be very heavy.

    Any special precautions/rigging/hauling needs seeing as this may be a delicate item. Securing with ratchet straps , a bad idea? I want to lay it down, is this ok?
    Actually CMM's tend to be "light" except for their granite. If no granite, then it shouldn't weigh didley squat...probably under 1K lbs...maybe under 500 lbs.

    As to rigging, conventional CMM's are a major PITA to move since you have to be very careful. One crack in a granite or ceramic upright or grantry bridge and you might as well throw the whole thing in the dumpster...ball game over. Move the axis by hand without the air on and you may ruin the accuracy of that axis right there.

    But this one is not "conventional" so, dunno...call Zeiss on Monday and you may get thru to someone that can give specific precautions for this model. Laying on side may be problematic due to a counterweight...that sort of thing. But be forewarned that you may get up with someone that will act horrified that you as mere mortal would even think about moving a CMM your self ! But maybe with this "shop hardened" model they won't be so horrified

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    IIRC, and it's been 10 years, it was $32K to $50K depending on the software chosen. I saw one on ebay 6 months ago, went to about $12K I think.

    I also think it will be less than 1000 lbs. It's meant to roll around the shop on those wheels, and I'm not sure there's any granite in it. I hauled a 24X36 conventional CMM recently, I think it was 1200 or so.

    I would not consider laying it on it's side. I'd build a skid and a cradle on that skid out of 2X4s or 4X4s and strap it to that skid with ratchet straps.


    For those who don't know about these, they are scanning CMMs. You don't just touch the probe to points on the work, you drag the probe along the planes, and around the arcs, and it interpolates the surface, it doesn't just give you a diameter and roundness for example, it draws a graph of the straightness and roundness of the hole. For 3d stuff it's not a cloud of points, it creates the surface in 3d.

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    When looking at a mitutoyo CMM at one point, the prior owner, the documentation, and the Mitutoyo rep all agreed that they need to be moved carefully, using brackets they ship with.

    So you will want to be sure that all moving brackets and the like are included with the unit, and installed correctly.

    It probably wants to travel only standing up, secured in some particular way.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mudflap View Post
    IIRC, and it's been 10 years, it was $32K to $50K depending on the software chosen. I saw one on ebay 6 months ago, went to about $12K I think.

    For those who don't know about these, they are scanning CMMs. You don't just touch the probe to points on the work, you drag the probe along the planes, and around the arcs, and it interpolates the surface, it doesn't just give you a diameter and roundness for example, it draws a graph of the straightness and roundness of the hole. For 3d stuff it's not a cloud of points, it creates the surface in 3d.
    Ah, that explains the price. Knowing that the cheapest Brown and Sharpe 2000 CMM is not much more than $11,000 new I figured this thing might be only $15K or so...but I didn't realize it's extra capabilities.

    On the down side I talked with someone who owns a ScanMax this morning and he says it cost them $5,000 to $7,000 everytime the least little thing goes wrong with it ! So the big problem is you would be "married" to Zeiss on the thing...unlike most other CMM's, I suspect no one but Zeiss can service the little bugger.

  9. #9
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    I talked with Zeiss tech support .

    The guy said that the top part of the machine is removed from the base for transport. The 2 halves need blocking and crating. Zeiss moving instructions say should only be moved under after consulting with a systems specialist.

    The top half (the vertical mast with the articulated arm) is attached with 3 bolts to the base. I tried to find out what size these bolts are but he didn't know. I am assuming they will be metric. I got an email with what looks like

    bolt specs:

    M8 16 DEEP
    Diameter of bolt head 22
    thickness of bolt head 4.2
    I assume this is 22 mm and 4.2 mm?
    M8 is the type of metric bolt?

    Anyway I asked for a quote on getting a Zeiss service personal to go and package the whole thing.

    Once the machine is crated, anyone including me can load it and transport it. Now they also specify an air ride enclosed vehicle. Said pickup won't do....I was thinking of strapping the base to the pickup bed floor and putting the mast+articulated arm inside on the seat with fluffy comforter for padding.

    Heres the dimensions.

    Mast Height : 1100mm (43.3") , Width 210mm , Deep 865mm , 60kgs
    Base height : 975mm (38.3"), Width 640mm , Deep 1057mm , 315kgs
    Mast+base height: 2075 mm (81.6") total weight 375 kgs.


    btw
    Zeiss tech support and dispatch said use an Air ride equipped truck to move it.

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    FWIW, Hexagon Metrology gave me the same advice about moving my 1992 DEA Swift CMM. They were adamant that I needed to have them come in and prepare it for moving, and then have them come to my shop to unpack it and set it up. Furthermore I didn't dare move it without the factory shipping brackets, which were missing and unavailable from them. This was a machine that had been moved around a dealer's warehouse for a few years, and had been moved there by the previous owner's empoyees. I improvised much as you are planning on, and hauled it 400 miles in a 1 ton box truck along the (Construction Zone Ahead) PA Turnpike. I put the granite plate on a modified pallet and strapped it to the pallet with ratchet straps, and strapped the bridge so it would not shake or move - in hindsight, probably too tightly. It works fine. How much shock do you think that Zeiss CMM is built to take, being rolled around the shop floor, over chips and uneven concrete, maybe over a door jam? I think it will do just fine in the back seat - buckle up!

    Ps - How old is it and watcha pay for it?

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    Age , according to Zeiss is 2003. Apparently it was originally in Tennessee.
    Price $1740 before Mi sales tax . Cost to rent pickup, $200 for 2 days. Gas, (about 750ish miles) another $200 if I am lucky and get atleast 18-20mpg but I doubt it.

    With a regular granite base CMM, I can understand wanting to secure it as that much weight can damage itself. This thing is only 370ish kgs, and almost all of it is the concrete base.

    I assume M8 16 Deep is the size and length of the bolt/screw? This info is next to the drawing of the 3 bolts that secure mast to base. Is this a Philips or Hex-Head screw or bolt? I am guessing its a bolt that requires a socket wrench?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Spud View Post
    Price $1740 before Mi sales tax
    And here I thought you were an honest person Spud...and you now admit to "stealing" from poor little Hilco !

    Good buy..worth that much even if it doesn't work !

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    Yes- Super deal. Lucky Bastid...
    Post some photos.

    I'd think that it's an 8mm dia bolt, It may be a special with a very large dia head if that 22mm is correct. Take a set of metric hex keys, and a metric socket set. There might be some wiring to disconnect, I'd be prepared for that too.

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    Talking

    Quote Originally Posted by Milacron View Post
    A

    As to rigging, conventional CMM's are a major PITA to move since you have to be very careful.
    I Just brought an M&M 3000 from east coast to Ohio , on a dual axle trailer somthing like a car hauler. It being very top heavy sits on three legs, each abour 24" apart.

    Even befor leaving one of the legs was starting to break through the top of the pallet , that was covered with 3/4 inch plywood.

    By pounding 4 X6 wood blocks inside the pallet before leaving and tying extra securely it rode nicely.

    I don't know yet if it has sustained any vibrational dammage on its 740 mile trip.

    My thought is that if one is going to move one of these types himself , take everything I mean EVERYTHING that might possibly be usefull for rigging blocking cleating and securing down . Bowsaw , 2 X4 , 2X6 , 2X8 4 X6 hammer nails spikes sledge. Take twice as much of everything as you can imagine using.

    David

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    I took all the tools I had, some 2x4 and 2x3s, handsaw (don't have power saws).

    In the end all I had to buy was a 6mm Allen key and a short piece of pipe to get needed torque.

    Had 8 ratchet straps and used 7. Way over kill but wanted to make sure the base wasn't gona go AWOL.Last thing I needed was base flying off truck, striking someone and killing or seriously injuring.

    Dismantles tower from base as thats the proper way to transport.

    All I can say, I ain't getting anymore difficult to move items like this anymore.


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