10 EE toolpost choice
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  1. #1
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    What is the best or most appropriate toolpost for the later 10EE lathes. I've heard several opinions: Aloris AXA, BXA or KDK types. I'd be interested in any opinions you all have to offer. This has become one of my favorite web sites to visit!!!!!
    Thanks, Steve

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    I haven't used the KDK. My friend swears by them. I have used a bxa and an axa on my 10EE. The axa is a little to small for the center height of the machine. Some small tools can't be adjusted to index at center height with the axa. They can still be used but the knurled nut can't be set to return them there. So between the axa and the bxa, my choice would be bxa.

    Spence

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    We have a 10EE with a Dorian AXA QC post. The only problem I've run into is the limited 1/2" tool shank capacity. However, one of the toolholders has been modified to fit 3/4" shanks. That's the only problem so far, but I'd step up to a BXA too.

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    I have an Aloris AXA, and the problem that Spence describes is the main limitation. I've stopped using the AXA in favor of a Monarch toolpost. I like the Monarch because
    of the ease of tool change, the ease of adjusting the toolbit height and angle (without moving the toolpost), the clearance around the work area, the visibility of the cutter, etc. Besides, its a Monarch part.

    The toolpost that came with my EE was the smallest Swiss toolpost, which also works well. The tool holders are somewhat hard to
    find.

    If you are interested in getting a Monarch toolpost, I know a dealer who has one that is new and includes the stand for the holders. It includes several holders.

    Don't contact me about this, you will have to
    contact the dealer directly, I only see him once a year or so and I do not know how much he is currently asking for this. But he has had it for sale for a few years now. His business is:

    Gerlinger Steel & Supply Co.
    539 Uren St. Nevada City, CA 95959
    530 265-5191

    Ask for Tom Walsh. He has lots of 10EE parts as well as 10EE's, and nice older machinery for sale. I bought my first 10EE from him about 10 years ago, and he has always given me great service and has been a source of hard-to-find accessories.

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    I have seen this toolpost setup that Tom Walsh has. It is drop dead gorgeous. And it is brand new. I thought about buying it but it was Quite expensive. I second all the good things said about Tom. He's the best.

    Spence

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    Is this the one you're talking about?




    [This message has been edited by rke[pler (edited 12-11-2002).]

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    Russ,
    yep. That's it. The tool holders have those
    hardened pads on top and bottom. I guess
    you can turn them over, but I'm not sure
    why you would want to.

    -Dave

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    I'm looking into an Aloris for my Monarch EE. The Aloris catalog appears to recommend the AXA toolpost. This seems a little puzzling given the feedback here. Is it possible that the Aloris T-nut raises the toolpost a bit to deal with the "little to small for the center height of the machine" problem? Aside from the 1/2" shank limit, the AXA is appealing to me because I can use the tooling on my other lathes - am I being penny wise and pound foolish?

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    I followed the recommendations listed above already and put a BXA Aloris on my 10EE. I'm extremely satisfied with it. I also have an AXA on another machine and it is much less substantial, has less tool capacity but does work. I have no experience with the KDK or Monarch toolposts yet.
    I'd like to say again what excellent advice is offered on the site and I'm pleased to participate! Steve

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    Dave: The "swiss" toolpost you are talking about - is that a Tripan? I have a Tripan 2xx set, the next smallest, it works great for me. I have not heard of many of these outside Europe.

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    Ole, the Swiss toolpost is one of the "40-position" toolposts, and it is size A.

    It says "Multifix type A, J.F. Mindet,
    Geneve" on it.

    My lathe made the trans-Atlantic journey
    twice, once as part of the Marshall program,
    and once on the way back, liberated by a tool
    dealer in Oregon. The Swiss toolpost came
    with it on the return journey. It spent the
    intervening years in England. It also came
    back with metric conversion dials.

    -Dave

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    Dave!
    The multifix is in very high regard in Europe. Is the A size the right one for the 10ee? I see a lot of holders for it on German Ebay, but many of them are clones. I suppose most of them fit well.

    Interesting to hear about your lathe's travels. Does it have imperial leadscrews and metric dials? Mine is metric throughout.

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    The Multifix is beautifully made. But the
    A size is a tad small. The distance from
    top of the compound to center is 1 1/4" on
    my EE (1940, so that may have changed on
    later lathes), and the Multifix A toolpost
    height is 1 3/4" (which is about 1/2" less
    than an Aloris AXA).

    When I adjust the Multifix cutoff tool holder
    to center, the holder is 1/8" above the top
    of the toolpost. It is still engaged about
    an inch, so it is probably ok. At least with
    the Multifix, the cutter can be adjusted to
    center height. With the Aloris AXA, there
    were times when the adjustment was at the
    very end of its travel in order to get the
    toolbit to center.

    The only metric items on my lathe are the
    cross feed, compound and tailstock dials and
    the dial indicators.

    The tailstock dial is a simple doubly-marked scale.

    The cross feed and compound dials are
    internally geared, and by rotating the
    assembly, it changes from direct reading
    (English gradations) to transposed metric.

    The pair of metric indicators fit on
    dovetails at each end of the saddle. There
    are a left and right stop that the
    indicators register against.

    -Dave

  14. #14
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    I expect the "Swiss Multiquick" shown in the SPI catalogue may be the same thing as the "Multifix". There are 6 sizes (smallest to largest): Aa, A, E, B, C and D.(Why it's not Aa,A,B,C,D and E I don't know). The A and the E calling for a minimum height above top of compound of 1 1/8 and 1 9/64 inches respectively look like the ones that would fit the 10EE. The min ht. above compound is based on using the maximum size bit in the turning and facing holder: 3/4" for the A and 1" for the E (there is also a 3/4" turning and facing holder for the E). Presumably the larger bit accounts for the apparently small increase in minimum center ht. described for the E. The A post itself is 2 1/8" high, the E is 2 5/8" high. Also the cut off blade holder for the A uses a 3/8" high blade, the one for the E a 5/8" high blade. The larger blade on the E may help with the adjustment problem Dave described. 2001 prices were $521.73 for the A and $667.59 for the E. Among the nifty tool holders shown are an external and an internal threading tool holder each with a lever to quickly withdraw the cutting tool, sort of like what's on the compound of the Hardinge. Unfortunately these tool holders cost more than the toolposts themselves. Turning and facing holders for the A are about $140, for the E about $170. I haven't seen these toolposts anywhere other than the SPI catalogue- not in Travers or J&L or MSC. Occasionally other tool supply companies issue the SPI catalogue with their own cover and additional pages- Penn Tool Co. has done this. I remember seeing tool posts like this in the ENCO catalogue years ago, don't have a current one around.

    The center ht above compound on my 1977 10EE is 1 1/4", apparently that didn't change when they increased the swing by 1/2" in the 1940's. Aloris doesn't give minimum center ht above compound for their toolposts, but Dorian does, they list 7/8" for the AXA, 1 1/16" for the BXA and 1 1/4" for the CXA, so the BXA size looks most appropriate for the 10EE. As noted earlier, for some reason Aloris recommends the AXA in their catalogue for the 10EE. I use an AXA on mine because that's what I had when I sold my 10" South Bend. I'm making a 1/4" riser plate for it to possibly make up for its slightly too small size.
    David

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    The quoted toolpost heights for the Swiss toolposts apparently include the outer cover,
    which is misleading. The actual toolblock
    is circular, with grooves that the tool index to; there are 40 groves around the
    circumference, hence 40 positions for the
    toolholers. The outer cover rotates freely
    around the toolblock except when a toolholder is in place. The holders have an
    adjustment screw that runs down to the block.
    When I mentioned that the cutoff tool was
    about 1/8" higher than the toolblock, it was
    just below the top of the cover. The height I gave was for the toolblock only.

    Confused yet?

    Yes, the A cutoff tool is 3/8" height.

    One of the toolholders I have is marked Enco;
    I found it at Triangle Machinery for $5 a few
    years ago.

    One reason that I don't use my 40 position toolpost is that I personally never found a lot of utility to having the 40 positions. Perhaps if I had a sufficient quantity of tool holders it would work quite well, but I only have four (boring/facing, cut off and general square bit), and every time I needed a different cutter I ended up realigning the toolpost; it was very rare to have one of the 40-positions be spot on).

    One of the reasons I like the Monarch post is that I have six or seven tool holders, so the frequency of changing cutters in and out of tool holders is much reduced. Also, the
    cutter angle alignment gets adjusted on the
    holder, reducing the need to move the toolpost still further.

    I believe that Tom Walsh also has a Swiss toolpost and holders for sale, see the posting above with his contact info.

    -Dave

  16. #16
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    If you go to Penn Tool's website (www.penntoolco.com), click on "Manufacturers", scroll down to SPI, click, then scroll down to "Workholding Devices" (several categories down)scroll down there to Swiss Multiquick" and you can get a look at one of these. David

  17. #17
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    Try this site for more reasonably priced sets.
    These are far east imports but should be ok.Rember prices are in Canadian dollars so multiply by .65 to get $US
    http://www.bellmachineryltd.com/new_access_toolpost.htm

    Bob


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