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Rivett 1020S Electrical Questions

TravisR100

Cast Iron
Joined
Aug 7, 2006
Location
Houston, TX
I got the drive plate fixed up and also got my phase converter in today. I wanted to give it a try and see if the Rivett would run. I should have bothered to chase down the wires to make sure the wild leg wasn’t going to the transformer however I didn’t.

Bottom line, it runs. It makes a bit of a loud electrical hum on start up and then settles down to a moderate electrical hum. I tried switching the legs around several times. Every time I get the same result. Doesn’t seem to care where the wild leg is.

My first combination of wiring had the spindle running backward when I pressed the forward button. Switching two wires took care of that. But no matter what the fast/slow button is reversed. It always goes slower when I push faster.

This machine also has 440v on the name plate but I was told it was converted to 220.

I haven’t had a chance to think all this through yet, just some initial thoughts.


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check to make sure it's actually converted to 220 before running it again. As I mentioned in your other thread, the main 3 phase fuses are different as are the heaters. The wiring to the control circuit transformer is also different (wiring diagram is on the front of the transformer). These are the easier ways to check. The harder, but more robust is to check the wiring of the main motor. The speed control motor gets it's power from the main motor windings and runs on 220v no matter if you have 220 or 440. I can't answer if a 440 vs 220 would cause your problems, but it might since the speed control motor for the reeves drive gets its power from the main motor.
 
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check to make sure it's actually converted to 220 before running it again. As I mentioned in your other thread, the main 3 phase fuses are different as are the heaters. The wiring to the control transformer is also different (wiring diagram is on the front of the transformer). These are the easier ways to check. The harder, but more robust is to check the wiring of the main motor. The speed control motor gets it's power from the main motor windings and runs on 110v no matter if you have 220 or 440. I can't answer if a 440 vs 220 would cause your problems, but it might since the speed control motor for the reeves drive gets its power from the main motor.

Problem is I don’t know what fuses would indicate 440 vs 220. Here’s a pic of them.
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And no obvious diagram on the transformer.

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Problem with getting to the actual motor connection is that it almost looks like you have to remove the speed control motor to access it.


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I also read heaters need to be changed. From other threads I think those are in the contactors? I see the red reset buttons. Need to take the contactor apart to get to the heaters


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Fuses: those are 30A fuses and would imply 220v power since 30A is way to much for that lathe at 440v.

Heaters: I don't have fancy ways to highlight things in your photos, but in the photo of the fuses in this thread -- at the bottom right, there are a series of machine screws. Top one is the power line to the heater and the bottom two are the ones that hold the heater in place. You do not need to remove or disassemble the contactor. There is a contactor for the main motor and another one for another motor (I can't remember which one, but I'd guess it was the coolant motor since the speed control is under the same system as the main motor).

Transformer: I stand corrected -- there is no diagram on the front of that one. Sorry. But it *should* be a standard transformer and the wiring diagram is google-able. (you would need to look 'under the hood' so to speak to see how it's wired).
 
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Ok. Thank you for the information. So the fuses imply 220. I’ll have to go back and look at what you described for the heaters.

I also noticed in the Rivett schematics it shows that machines will have one of 3 transformers. 575/110, 440/110, or 220/110. That would also seem to imply its wired for 220 although I saw another thread of someone who had a 440 machine with the same transformer I have.

What rating would the fuses be if it was 440? 15 amp I assume?

Correction: after researching transformers I don’t believe that machines came with one of 3 different transformers. I think they had a transformer that could be wired 3 different ways.

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Ok, looked at that pic. So the reset button is right between where the power goes to the heater and the top terminal of the heater. I’ll pull it out tomorrow and see what it looks like.


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Thank you VERY much for pointing out where to look for the heaters. I found four spaces for heaters.

Heater locations...
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In the pic above I’ll refer to these as 1, 2, 3, and 4 from left to right where the yellow circles are. You’ll see that I removed the devices from spaces 1 and 4 in this picture.

In space 1 (and quite obviously space 2 even though I haven’t removed it) instead of a heater there is just a metal strip. Here are a few pictures of it...

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It looks like nothing more than a bent piece of metal but it it’s obviously not something someone in a shop fabricated because it does have numbers stamped on it.

In spaces 3 and 4 there are two heaters. The one in space 3 is marked C5.26A and the one in space 4 is marked C2.20A.

Pictures...

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I’m not sure what to make of this information.

The contactor on the far right (between heater spaces 3 and 4) has a contactor coil marked 15D21G2. Google says this is a 110v starter coil.

The contactor on the far left (to the right of space 1) marked CR7009C. Google says this is a reversing motor starter contactor. The coil in it is 22D151G2. According to Google this is also a 110v coil.

The contactor in the middle (to the left of space 2) is missing the name plate but also has a 22D151G2 coil in it.

Makes sense that these would all have 110v coils as these are all part of the control circuitry.


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That metal strip is a heater to.

Thanks. It’s an 81D 558. Googling tells me this is a motor heater and is rated for 17.9 -20.8 amps. Although the picture I find looks like a normal heater and not the strip of metal I have. Apparently this part number was at some point replaced by CR123 C19.8B.

On another page referring to the CR123 C19.8B it says “19.8 To 21.9 Ampere 1 Phase 17.2 To 18.7 Ampere 3 Phase.”


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That would seem to be appropriately sized since the FLA of the motor is 17.5 at 220 and 8.8 at 440. Unless they are typically doubled in size vs the FLA.
 
Well it gets more interesting by the minute. I crawled underneath and managed to get the wiring plate off the motor.

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It shows that for 220 4, 5, and 6 should be tied together and then 3, 9, line, and 8, 2, line and 7, 1, line. And... that’s how it’s wired. So the motor is definitely wired for 220. The heater and fuse ratings also seem to imply 220. So, looks like 220.

But...

In researching the transformer I came across GE’s current lineup of transformers. Seems like the drop in replacement for what’s in the machine is a 9T58K1806. Same specs. And they had a wiring diagram for it.

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So basically the 2 windings on each side are either wired parallel or serial. Luckily they used these nifty little metal wire tags and the wires coming from the transformer still have the tags which match the diagram above. The way the transformer is wired is currently 480 primary, 240 secondary. I think what happened is someone obviously converted this machine to 220 at some point in its life. Originally I believe the transformer would have been wired for 480 primary 110 secondary since the control circuits are 110, not 220. I think what they should have done is wired it 240 primary 120 secondary. But I would imagine having it wired as it is that it’s still taking the 220 and knocking it down to 110??? Should I change it to 240 primary 110 secondary or just leave it as is?


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I seem to recall taking the transformer out because the tag was on top or bottom and you couldn't see it without removing tran.


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