10ee long bed elsr barn find... now what?
Close
Login to Your Account
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 22
  1. #1
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    Kansas
    Posts
    23
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1
    Likes (Received)
    2

    Default 10ee long bed elsr barn find... now what?

    This is my second 10ee. The first had a ton of bed wear and I wanted elsr. I found a super cheap listing for a 30" and could not pass it up. But boy is it in rough shape. All electronics are gone other than the switches in the elsr knob. Motor and gear box is gone. A number of handles are missing or broken, but the ways look good. And the tapper attachment is there err at least most of it??? So do I part what's left out? Try to find the pieces and re assemble? Maybe with a solid state conversion? Or do I servo drive it? I got to say I'm most interested in the servo.... thoughts???

    20210515_125659.jpg20210515_122914.jpg

  2. Likes TheOldCar liked this post
  3. #2
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Montana
    Posts
    1,200
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    144
    Likes (Received)
    74

    Default

    Look around there and you might find more parts, doors, cover or drive parts.
    If you use the parts you might sell them.
    Put a 7 1/2 hp min or better yet a 10hp black max and a VFD.
    Do a search for more info.

    Hal

    Did you buy the car also? Is it a charger?

  4. #3
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    barcelona, spain
    Posts
    2,611
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    629
    Likes (Received)
    1572

    Default

    A servo drive will be vastly better than the original or any other option.

    I did the same on my 1.5 kW lathe to excellent success.
    With a 2.5 kW cont. ac servo drive.

  5. Likes Don's Engine liked this post
  6. #4
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Missoula Mt
    Posts
    1,398
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    62
    Likes (Received)
    674

    Default

    How could something so valuable end up so trashed?...Phil

  7. #5
    Join Date
    May 2020
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Florida
    Posts
    49
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    35
    Likes (Received)
    9

    Default

    I know what to do with it.... Drive it on over to my place, and I'll give her some lovin.

  8. #6
    Join Date
    Feb 2020
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Maryland
    Posts
    196
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    2
    Likes (Received)
    62

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Wilde Racing View Post
    This is my second 10ee. The first had a ton of bed wear and I wanted elsr. I found a super cheap listing for a 30" and could not pass it up. But boy is it in rough shape. All electronics are gone other than the switches in the elsr knob. Motor and gear box is gone. A number of handles are missing or broken, but the ways look good. And the tapper attachment is there err at least most of it??? So do I part what's left out? Try to find the pieces and re assemble? Maybe with a solid state conversion? Or do I servo drive it? I got to say I'm most interested in the servo.... thoughts???

    20210515_125659.jpg20210515_122914.jpg
    First you make sure the ways are good. If so then you buy a donor machine with worn ways and take what you need and sell off the rest. Buying parts piece by piece takes forever and costs a ton. I would definitely go solid servo.

  9. #7
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    Kansas
    Posts
    23
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1
    Likes (Received)
    2

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by 220swift View Post
    Look around there and you might find more parts, doors, cover or drive parts.
    If you use the parts you might sell them.
    Put a 7 1/2 hp min or better yet a 10hp black max and a VFD.
    Do a search for more info.

    Hal

    Did you buy the car also? Is it a charger?
    The charger is a 69 and a project that I will never finish....

    Quote Originally Posted by hanermo View Post
    A servo drive will be vastly better than the original or any other option.

    I did the same on my 1.5 kW lathe to excellent success.
    With a 2.5 kW cont. ac servo drive.
    I really like this idea, I'm just unsure of the servo amp and wiring.

    Quote Originally Posted by Phil in Montana View Post
    How could something so valuable end up so trashed?...Phil
    It was in an old leaky warehouse and hadn't seen a hand touch it in years. It looks like it was stripped years ago.

    Quote Originally Posted by Don's Engine View Post
    I know what to do with it.... Drive it on over to my place, and I'll give her some lovin.
    I'd love to drive it to someone's house, let someone paint it and get it working and them I can come pick it back up

  10. #8
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    Kansas
    Posts
    23
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1
    Likes (Received)
    2

    Default

    I've been trying to find information on the servo. No luck. I'm guessing I'm going to have to built the setup myself. I was hoping for some sort of "kit".

  11. #9
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Montana
    Posts
    1,200
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    144
    Likes (Received)
    74

    Default

    It would be a good time to grind the bed if it needs it.

    Hal

  12. #10
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Virginia
    Posts
    20,182
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    7561
    Likes (Received)
    12002

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Wilde Racing View Post
    I've been trying to find information on the servo. No luck. I'm guessing I'm going to have to built the setup myself. I was hoping for some sort of "kit".
    Keep in mind that the/a/any 10EE can be given any sort of drive:

    ANY

    - the modern near-as-dammit drop-in Sundstrand hydraulic, which is still used in farming and construction and groundskeeping tractors and mowers, and available off the shelf. Brand-new.

    - A(ny) OEM DC drive, whether the 5 HP of the "Modular" era this one was originally, or either small-frame WiaD 3 HP or or large-frame MG era 3 HP.

    - A(ny) AC + VFD that fits the space.

    - A(ny) servo drive that fits the space.

    .. and then... can be changed again to any of the other selections.. and then.. changed again..to any of... "etc."

    Not "permanent" even if YOU want it to be "permanent", because whomever owns it a hundred years from now may change it again.

    Because..

    All the 10EE asked of the whole freakin' universe... is that "something friendly" input motational power to at least ONE of its twinned "A" section Vee belts.

    Actually, it doesn't mind flat belts, PolyVee / MicroVee AKA "serpentine", or synchronous Gilmer or Pirelli toothed belts, either.

    Rosin-coated cotton clothesline would be kinda pushing it, but you get the idea.

    You can do just about ANYTHING to provide the power, including something temporary.

    AS FDR said about "war" "Now my son Elliot? He just doesn't give a damn!"

    That might sound silly, but it is the reality. Anything that makes the spindle go 'round, and 100% of the REST of the 10EE? Just doesn't give a damn!

    So first, OF COURSE it gets rebuilt! Long-bed 10EE are far too scarce to waste!

    "If not you, then one of we!"

    Second, there IS a "kit" for servo if you but close one eye and look at it from a new direction.

    Any major maker servo drive that used any sort of a belt first choice, any that was similar RPM range that was direct drive second choice (you put a belt onto it..) and the already-known mating servo amp and controls for it..

    IOW, grab the OTHER machine's service manuals and parts list, then go hunt-down new or used parts to match as if restoring THAT machine... and put one together in the belly of your 10EE instead of where it would have lived... and

    Very similar to re-motoring a motor vehicle, yah?

    Jerry (Macona) was in a "day Job" environment where they dealt with servos and drives as part of their business. He was able to mix and match from what he already knew in his work.

    His write up on PM will show that it really is mostly about selecting servo components already known to work together.. then fabricating a mount.

    Same as doing an engine swap - easy if you use the donor-motor's "usual" transmission and brain box, too. Fab only mounts and driveshaft.

    So if servo is what you want?

    "JFDI"

    Scout it. ADAPT it.

    There are at least a half a dozen guys here on PM that know about them.
    Maybe half a thousand, even. Or more.

    You will get plenty of help.

  13. Likes Wilde Racing liked this post
  14. #11
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    Kansas
    Posts
    23
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1
    Likes (Received)
    2

    Default

    Well I started doing a bit more cleaning, sadly the ways are worse near the tailstock. Lots of rust and pitting. I'm not sure it could be saved. For how much I have into this I wouldn't mind spending some money to save it. Any recommendations for someone around Kansas that can do some grinding if saving is even an option? Sad the think I might throw away a 30".....

    20210515_232215.jpg20210515_232245.jpg

  15. #12
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Virginia
    Posts
    20,182
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    7561
    Likes (Received)
    12002

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Wilde Racing View Post
    Well I started doing a bit more cleaning, sadly the ways are worse near the tailstock. Lots of rust and pitting. I'm not sure it could be saved. For how much I have into this I wouldn't mind spending some money to save it. Any recommendations for someone around Kansas that can do some grinding if saving is even an option? Sad the think I might throw away a 30".....

    20210515_232215.jpg20210515_232245.jpg
    If not you..

    Get on the phone with Monarch themselves in Sidney first.

    Monarch EE Series | Monarch Lathes

    They like 30" module drive 10EE for full rebuild to factory new specifications. Because they ARE "the factory" and it saves them having to do the castings.

    Regrinding beds is done to ALL their work anyway.

    The rest of us? It is a pain in the ass, and costly.

    Not that it is any easier for Monarch, but at least it is their "Day Job" and they've done a LOT of them. One more is just same-tasking, different casting.

  16. #13
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Florida
    Posts
    183
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    10
    Likes (Received)
    16

    Default

    Cash Masters is someone you could use for the bed re-grinding. He is based in Milwaukee.
    Keith Rucker uses him exclusively for all kinds of re0grinding jobs and had his Monarch 60 bed re-ground there.

    Here is the "estimate" based on the video I sent him to do my 10EE so you can get a rough Idea of the cost.


    To grind the bed, you are looking at approx. $1200

    To re-scrape the saddle, this means we would need the spindle to align it, you are looking at least $5,000 for this part of the process. Most guys like to handle this on their own as you can machine the saddle with a Bridgeport and scrape yourself.



    [email protected]

  17. #14
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    Salinas, CA USA
    Posts
    4,800
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    527
    Likes (Received)
    430

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Phil in Montana View Post
    How could something so valuable end up so trashed?...Phil
    One word: DRMO

  18. #15
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Dassel,MN,USA
    Posts
    205
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    35
    Likes (Received)
    75

    Default

    My 2 cents. Clean up that rusted spot with navel jelly
    Loctite(R) Naval Jelly(R) Rust Dissolver and then see if it really effects the cutting that much. Big bucks to fix, may be better left alone.


    For the new drive, many solutions. FWIW, I just re did my second to 10EE with a VFD rated 10 hp motor and VFD. It has worked out extremely well. And very inexpensive with ebay motor.
    Monarch 10EE rebuild 10Hp VFD no backgear | The Hobby-Machinist

    PS, GREAT FIND.

  19. #16
    Join Date
    May 2020
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Florida
    Posts
    49
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    35
    Likes (Received)
    9

    Default

    I'd love to drive it to someone's house, let someone paint it and get it working and them I can come pick it back up [/QUOTE]


    Sounds good to me.... Will get it done ASAP, and you can retrieve it in say... 10 Years. Don

  20. #17
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Virginia
    Posts
    20,182
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    7561
    Likes (Received)
    12002

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Don's Engine View Post
    I'd love to drive it to someone's house, let someone paint it and get it working and them I can come pick it back up

    Sounds good to me.... Will get it done ASAP, and you can retrieve it in say... 10 Years. Don
    Oh my.. a bidding war is afoot, then?

    I'll raise you:

    Dee Cee powered to OEM performance or better, and returned in only 9 years!


  21. #18
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    Kansas
    Posts
    23
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1
    Likes (Received)
    2

    Default

    Thermite- I hear ya on the drive. I guess my real question is the wiring side of a serov and servo drive. I have experience with converting an old dynapath system to mach and I ASSUME you would want to find a servo driver that like volcity mode, then you just need 10v and your good. Normally a pc and power supply is handling all of that......

    Quote Originally Posted by dinotom View Post
    Cash Masters is someone you could use for the bed re-grinding. He is based in Milwaukee.
    Keith Rucker uses him exclusively for all kinds of re0grinding jobs and had his Monarch 60 bed re-ground there.

    Here is the "estimate" based on the video I sent him to do my 10EE so you can get a rough Idea of the cost.


    To grind the bed, you are looking at approx. $1200

    To re-scrape the saddle, this means we would need the spindle to align it, you are looking at least $5,000 for this part of the process. Most guys like to handle this on their own as you can machine the saddle with a Bridgeport and scrape yourself.



    [email protected]
    I'll give him a call. I would really like to know my options.

    Quote Originally Posted by Karl_T View Post
    My 2 cents. Clean up that rusted spot with navel jelly
    Loctite(R) Naval Jelly(R) Rust Dissolver and then see if it really effects the cutting that much. Big bucks to fix, may be better left alone.


    For the new drive, many solutions. FWIW, I just re did my second to 10EE with a VFD rated 10 hp motor and VFD. It has worked out extremely well. And very inexpensive with ebay motor.
    Monarch 10EE rebuild 10Hp VFD no backgear | The Hobby-Machinist

    PS, GREAT FIND.
    Thanks for the link. I ordered the rust desolvent so we'll see how bad it is.. yea, I think I was pretty luck to find it. I also keep an eye out for any of the big three.... Bought it sight unseen with just two bad pictures. Pretty sure I could make all my money back by just selling the tapper attachment.

    Quote Originally Posted by Don's Engine View Post


    Sounds good to me.... Will get it done ASAP, and you can retrieve it in say... 10 Years. Don
    Quote Originally Posted by thermite View Post
    Oh my.. a bidding war is afoot, then?

    I'll raise you:

    Dee Cee powered to OEM performance or better, and returned in only 9 years!


    Let's get that bidding down to 2 years!

  22. #19
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Virginia
    Posts
    20,182
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    7561
    Likes (Received)
    12002

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Wilde Racing View Post
    Thermite- I hear ya on the drive. I guess my real question is the wiring side of a serov and servo drive.
    Yah really, you have tons of options. Servo if you are comfortable with them. Woods are full of them running CNC, so of course they work. Jerry's worked a treat for the 10EE's needs, and he was but one of five or so others who had done that whether they wrote it up on PM or not.

    Scout the parts from those who have gone-over to either of Solid State DC or VFD, (everettengr sold his Modular parts, so have others) and you could even restore the OEM Module drive with either of OEM gas bottles OR the Scissio Solid State tube replacements.

    AFAIK every other drive Monarch ever used will also fit, as will a VFD.


    Let's get that bidding down to 2 years!
    Tempting, but there's easily five years of projects in the queue before I could even start! Likewise my own need of 30" bed is already covered along with inherent Inch/Metric and near-as-dammit 16" clear over the ways. Parts already on order out of France and I'm onto the home stretch. No bed regrind needed thanks to Milacron not buying worn-outs to begin with!

    I don't even need earmuffs, given I'm already deaf! Are French gals ALWAYS noisy? I mean. I had heard the term "orgiastic scream", but go play a You Tube of any vari-drive HBX-360 at the gallop!

    DC 10EE can be nuke-sub quiet by contrast!



    No idea what you have near you for bedway grinding. My case, there's a decent bed grinder in Pennsyslvania within same day, each way, drop and later recover, another down South and West that would be only an overnight motel.

    But...."for the time being" we still have COVID making interstate travel more difficult than otherwise.

    Stout protective crating then bothway freight might be your only realistic option. Fuel prices being Buyed-in-ize, it's probably cheaper, too.

    End of the day, it isn't something you have to do TWICE, so go for the best, not the cheapest.

    Meanwhile.. clean it up, find (at least) temporary motive power to a belt. Try it.

    I think you will find it can still make goods parts even as-is.

    That will help you make a longer-range plan you can budget sanely.

    2CW

  23. #20
    Join Date
    Jan 2020
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Texas
    Posts
    57
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    11
    Likes (Received)
    11

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by hanermo View Post
    A servo drive will be vastly better than the original or any other option.

    I did the same on my 1.5 kW lathe to excellent success.
    With a 2.5 kW cont. ac servo drive.
    Hanermo,

    Was your conversion on a Monarch 10ee? Was it documented in the forum? If not, can you start a thread and provide a description of the conversion.

    thanks,

    Jdub

  24. Likes Terrain2015 liked this post

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •