10EE round dial gearbox removal instructions
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    Default 10EE round dial gearbox removal instructions

    I'm posting this to help the next beginner who wants/needs to remove the gearbox. Bfore anyone writes "This has already been covered!", I spent many hours here looking in the Monarch discussion group for exactly these instructions. Although it has been discussed, in many cases the photos accompanying the instructions were to URLs that were broken. Also, the instructions were sometime confusing. I'm posting the photos here with this text so they will be all together and hopefully, much easier to follow.

    Caveat: This is for a 1943 10EE round dial. No claims made about applicability to any other model, year, etc.

    You should have a roll of paper towels at the ready because gearbox oil will probably leak out.

    STEPS
    1. Drain the gearbox, then remove the drain pipe itself.

    2. Remove the two cap screws holding the Lead Screw Bearing Plate on the tailstock end of the lathe. Don't try to pull it off: the leadscrew has a snap ring holding it in one of the bearings in the bearing plate.

    monarch-lathe-3-1200.jpg

    3. Go to the headstock end of the leadscrew and drive out the taper pin.

    img_6040.jpg

    4. Disengage the leadscrew from the carriage. You should now be able to pull the leadscrew, feed rod, and the Lead Screw Bearing Plate as one unit away from the gearbox.

    5. Remove the mechanical/electrical leadscrew reverser from the left side of the feed forward/reverse selector. My lathe doesn't have either of those except for the small square piece, shown here, held on by four cap screws. In any case, whatever is there needs to come off to gain access to one of the three cap screws holding on the body of the leadscrew reverser.

    leadscrew-reverse.jpg

    6. Put the leadscrew reverser into "neutral", and remove the three cap screws holding on to the gearbox. Then simply pull the entire assembly out. You'll want to have a cork to put in the hole where it came out in case there is still oil in the gearbox. Lots of rags, too!

    Next, we'll turn our attention to removing as little as possible from the end gearing

    7. The casting the holds the Feed Shaft Bearing needs to come off. It is held on by four cap screws. Removing the pulley first makes the job easier, but isn't necessary. Once the four screws are out, simply pull it out.

    feedshaft-bearing.jpg

    8. Remove these two nuts and the quadrant clamp (the curved piece in the photo) and then remove the entire quadrant assemble.

    quadrant.jpg

    I'll continue the next steps in a response to this one because the message thread software won't let me attach more than five photos.
    Last edited by focusrsh; 11-07-2019 at 05:15 PM.

  2. Likes Crazymonkey, BugRobotics, Cal Haines liked this post
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    PART 2

    9. Remove the four cap screws holding the Tumbler Shaft Cap to the gearbox, and then remove the entire assembly. (You don't have to remove the gear that is normally on the shaft. I had already removed it in this photo.) The empty hole to the left of it is where the Feedshaft Bearing casting was. We removed it in step 7.

    img_6467.jpg

    Almost done!

    10. Remove the four cap screws on the front of the gearbox. You should now be able to wiggle the gearbox loose from the body of the lathe and slide it forward.

    img_6115.jpg

    WARNING! The gearbox is REALLY, REALLY HEAVY! Unless you regularly compete in the World's Strongest Man competition, you'll need a friend to lift it off and put it on the bench.

    img_6468.jpg

    That's it! It really isn't a bad job at all.
    Last edited by focusrsh; 11-07-2019 at 05:16 PM.

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    Nice to have that in the archives, helped me with some of the dis-assembly I was working on today.

    Dumb question, Can the round dial gear box be removed without removing the headstock above it? I have thoroughly cleaned and inspected the headstock and see no reason to dis-assemble it. I want to thoroughly clean the gear box now as well.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dinotom View Post
    Nice to have that in the archives, helped me with some of the dis-assembly I was working on today.

    Dumb question, Can the round dial gear box be removed without removing the headstock above it? I have thoroughly cleaned and inspected the headstock and see no reason to dis-assemble it. I want to thoroughly clean the gear box now as well.
    Not a "dumb" question. Just a lazy one.

    Could was the fotos of them being independently removed "Right here, on PM", were faked with Photoshop?

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    Quote Originally Posted by thermite View Post
    "Right here, on PM"
    How about “​Right here in this thread”???

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    Thermite and rimcanyon,

    I also thought I could prior to asking just based on how it looks like the headstock is attached, but better to as and to be sure than fk something up.

    It appears to me from the images, that his headstock above the gear box has already been removed, thus the question, which I don't see as dumb.

    I did find another thread where it is noted that it can be removed by itself.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dinotom View Post
    I did find another thread where it is noted that it can be removed by itself.
    I don' mean to sound "irritable", but thats the very point.

    There's just about every "10EE" question as can BE asked already answered "Right here on PM" and most of them at least four times over.

    GREAT resource, PM's Monarch forum.

    But only if yah READ it.

    Now.. if you were not aware...

    "Thread tools" click 'subscribe', top of each thread you find of present or future interest.

    As you go, your php page "zero" AKA "subscriptions" builds entries.

    Go over in the left sidebar and add "folders" by category. Bearings, gearbox rebuilds, apron rebuilds, motors, controls, which oils, etc.

    Migrate your subscriptions into the folders by subject and area of interest. If a thread covers four things, copy it onto four folders.

    Or copy the link (under the "post number", upper right corner) for only specific posts selected from WITHIN a complex thread.

    All that folder holds is a LINK to an "object" within PM's database.

    THERE ARE NO DUPLICATE COPIES MADE. Neither of text nor fotos.

    Efficient tool. Learn to use it and "PM" has provided you with a personalized "notebook",

    It will save YOU even more time than it saves the rest of us.

    Especially on days when you have asked the community that same question for the third or fourth time that we've already "re-answered" for you PERSONALLY several times before.

    It is looking for NEW questions, NOT already answered, that keeps us checking-in, here.

    Patient folks here. Very-damned patient!

    But that is not the same thing as "bottomless well".

    It goes smoother and faster if you do your "homework".

    Even when you still have need to ask, you "arrive with a question" that prior research equips you for making better and faster use of the new answers to.

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    Quote Originally Posted by focusrsh View Post
    PART 2

    9. Remove the four cap screws holding the Tumbler Shaft Cap to the gearbox, and then remove the entire assembly. (You don't have to remove the gear that is normally on the shaft. I had already removed it in this photo.) The empty hole to the left of it is where the Feedshaft Bearing casting was. We removed it in step 7.

    img_6467.jpg
    Well I went to remove the tumbler shaft and it wouldn't come out. I tried every combination of gear and screw settings but it won't come out (yes, I started with what was said in #7 first). I thought maybe it was just stuck so a little tapping with a rubber hammer. No good, didn't work but it did move the gearbox. Upon trying to get it back in its position (can't get it back in original position), which I couldn't, I successfully moved it enough that now whatever was keeping the shaft unit from coming out (sarcasm), is really keeping it from coming out.

    Any suggestions, as clearly the gearbox won't come out with the shaft there.

    Note: My headstock is still in place. If I remove the headstock above the gearbox will that enable me to remove the gearbox with the shaft still in place?

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    Quote Originally Posted by dinotom View Post
    Nice to have that in the archives, helped me with some of the dis-assembly I was working on today.

    Dumb question, Can the round dial gear box be removed without removing the headstock above it? I have thoroughly cleaned and inspected the headstock and see no reason to dis-assemble it. I want to thoroughly clean the gear box now as well.
    Not a dumb question, NOR lazy.
    No, the headstock stays put. Just do as I described and it will come out. Might have to rap the sides with a plastic mallet if it is stuck from years of gunk.
    If I can do it, you can do it!

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    Please see the post that I put up probably just prior to your post. Post #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by dinotom View Post
    Well I went to remove the tumbler shaft and it wouldn't come out. I tried every combination of gear and screw settings but it won't come out (yes, I started with what was said in #7 first). I thought maybe it was just stuck so a little tapping with a rubber hammer. No good, didn't work but it did move the gearbox. Upon trying to get it back in its position (can't get it back in original position), which I couldn't, I successfully moved it enough that now whatever was keeping the shaft unit from coming out (sarcasm), is really keeping it from coming out.

    Note: My headstock is still in place. If I remove the headstock above the gearbox will that enable me to remove the gearbox with the shaft still in place?
    Don't try to remove the headstock. Leave it undisturbed.

    I don't know why the shaft isn't coming out. Did you get the end cap off?
    Here is a photo of what the end of the gearbox looks like with the end cap removed.
    img_6485.jpg

    And here is the tumbler shaft. The right side is what you see in the above photo.
    img_6527.jpg

    I think my instructions in step 9 were misleading. You are just removing the end cap and the short shaft that fits in it. (The "change gear stud", which is part #24 in the 10EE "Gear Box, Parts Picture No. E-4" manual.") That is what I meant by "the assembly". The tumbler shaft stays with the gearbox. With that stud out of the way, the gearbox can slide out.

    That being said, if you can not get the end cap off, I can only assume someone used some really stout gasket sealer behind it. Try tapping a sharp putty knife around it.

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    Yes, I got the end cap off fine. It was sealed tho. I’ll re-look at the shaft this morning.

    Note: Looked at the parts picture and I see what your describing in Part #24.
    I tried again to pull that short shaft out but it will not come. I double nutted the end so I could pull on the nuts and have some leverage but it doesn't move.

    What could be holding it on the other side?

    What may be an issue as well, is right now I cannot get the gearbox back in place (I figured MAYBE its not coming out because something wasn't sitting right with it not properly in place), not sure why, but maybe that's part of the original problem?

    I have now removed the casting on the right holding the shaft and screw ends. That shouldn't have anything to do with my problem I do not think.

    I need help here.
    Last edited by dinotom; 05-05-2020 at 11:50 AM.

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    Please post of photo of that end of the gearbox, where you've removed the end cap. Plus any other photos of the gearbox and what you've removed. We'll get to the bottom of this!
    - Carl

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    Quote Originally Posted by focusrsh View Post
    Please post of photo of that end of the gearbox, where you've removed the end cap. Plus any other photos of the gearbox and what you've removed. We'll get to the bottom of this!
    - Carl
    Carl,
    Here is the image of the gearbox as it is now.

    monarch_10ee_image_gearboxshaftthatwontcomeout.jpg

    that small shaft on the end you noted in the parts diagram will not come off, therefore I cannot get the gearbox out of the machine.

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    Let clarify a mistake I made. I posted two photo on 5-4-20, one showing the left end of the gearbox and the second show the shaft. The second photo is wrong! It is not the "change gear stud". Mia culpa. Just wanted to state that here so no one who reads this thread in the future will be scratching their head.

    Since my lathe is down for motor repairs, I took that section apart to get some photos for you.
    Here are four photos of the change gear stud assembly. It simply lifted right out after removing the four cap screws that hold on the endplate.
    img_6970.jpg
    img_6971.jpg
    img_6972.jpg
    img_6973.jpg

    Honestly, I can't think of any reason it would be stuck in your lathe. At this point I'd be likely to attach a slap-hammer to the stud and give it a yank. Or a bearing puller.

    I've PM'ed Cal and asked him if he has any ideas.

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    I've never had occasion to remove a round-dial gearbox, so what follows is based strictly on what I can glean from various sources, including round-dial parts picture E4 and the patent for the gearbox, US Patent 2,377,305.

    Here's the relevant section of parts picture E4:
    parts_e-04-detail.jpg


    This parts picture is for the older version of the round-dial gearbox with the T-handle selector whereas Carl's machine has the lever-type selector handle. Several parts, including the Tumbler Shaft (E4-33) differ between the two versions.

    I've annotated two of Carl's photos with some of the part numbers from parts picture E4, above:
    gearbox-removal-22-img_6970-anno.jpg

    gearbox-removal-23-img_6971-anno.jpg

    E4-24 Change Gear Stud
    E4-27 Change Gear Retainer
    E4-31 Tumbler Shaft Bearing (L.H.)

    Note that bearing E4-31 is pressed into the back end of stud E4-24 but also supports the left end of shaft E4-33. In Carl's machine, the bearing was apparently a sufficiently loose fit to the tumbler shaft that it would come off easily (that's not necessarily good).

    On Tom's machine, he's removed retainer E4-27 and bearings E4-25 & 26, leaving just the stud E4-24 sticking out of the gearbox:

    Bearing E4-31 is apparently a tight fit to both the tumbler shaft (E4-33) and the stud (E4-24) and won't separate by hand, as Carl's did. It should be a matter of using a puller to separate the stud and/or bearing from the shaft.

    I wouldn't use a slide hammer here unless I was planning to replace the bearing. What you want is a plate with hole in it that can be placed behind the retaining nut on the end of stud E4-24, with tapped holes in the plate for two or three bolts to jack the stud free of the shaft. If you have a bearing separator, it would probably work just fine.

    Cal

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    Thanks for jumping in here, Cal. I think you've identified the issue. Yes, a simple bearing separator would probably do it.
    Tom, let us know if this works!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cal Haines View Post
    If you have a bearing separator, it would probably work just fine.

    Cal
    Cal,

    Thanks. I was going to make a tool to pull it but you're right, a bearing separator would work. I will try it tomorrow. I spent today finishing up the re-wiring and re-conduiting (using flex conduit) of the machine.

    Would you also mind looking at post #190 in my main machine restoration thread. There is a wiring question there you may be able to answer.

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    Default CVA Toolroom - Feed Gearbox Removal

    I wish I'd read this thread earlier today!

    If there are any CVA owners doing this job the instructions for the 10EE in this thread are applicable.
    Mine is the 30" bed 'squarer' type of CVA. The only differences are that the leadscrew reverse lever can be left in place, and the feed-shaft coupling is slightly different.
    I didn't have any trouble removing the gearbox input shaft & housing mentioned above.

    I was actually looking for help with dismantling gearbox. I expect that's in here somewhere!

    Martin
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails p1010036.jpg   p1010042.jpg  


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