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    Default 10EE sitting in a backyard

    Hi!
    I have found a 10EE sitting in a backyard with weeds growing knee-high around it.
    I have wanted one for a long time, and this is the first Monarch I have seen for sale localy.
    I assume the electric's are all ruined by moisture. I could be wrong, but this is my assumption based on how the lathe has been stored.

    It is a 1949 mod. How do I replace the motor and generator and all that old good stuff with modern equipment and still retain the features unique to this machine?
    I see posts here telling of convertions to VFD. Does this mean sacrificing features like the "no back gear above 200 rpm"?

    Not knowing how the lathe works I just have to ask. My only experience with a rebuild was i SB 9A. VFD turned out good on it, but this is sort of a few steps up the ladder in terms of complexity.....

    Will inspect on friday


    Thanks

    Gjermund

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    As you noted there are numerous threads about VFD conversions. The most successful ones retain the backgear and drive it with the new AC motor. It is indeed at least a "few steps up the ladder in terms of complexity" from VFD powering a SB 9 but the job has been accomplished by a number of members here in unique ways. This thread is a "sticky" from above, it will help you get a handle of the scope of the conversion and do look at the links within the thread.

    VFD Conversion

    There are many other threads on the subject, use the forum search function or google to find them and start reading.

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    1949 was the year that tube drive 10EEs were introduced, so the machine might be either a tube drive or a motor/generator (MG) machine. Either way it will have essentially the same spindle motor and DC control panel under the headstock. Make sure you take the cover off the DC panel and have a look. The DC spindle motor and MG machines in general are pretty tough, so even if it's been subjected to a fair amount of moisture you may be able to save the original drive. Get us some photos of the spindle motor, DC control panel and the MG or WiaD (Works in a Drawer) under the tailstock and we can give you better advice.

    Taper attachments have cavities that can catch water, so if the machine has one the TA may be in rough shape.

    Cal

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cal Haines View Post
    1949 was the year that tube drive 10EEs were introduced, so the machine might be either a tube drive or a motor/generator (MG) machine. Either way it will have essentially the same spindle motor and DC control panel under the headstock. Make sure you take the cover off the DC panel and have a look. The DC spindle motor and MG machines in general are pretty tough, so even if it's been subjected to a fair amount of moisture you may be able to save the original drive. Get us some photos of the spindle motor, DC control panel and the MG or WiaD (Works in a Drawer) under the tailstock and we can give you better advice.

    Taper attachments have cavities that can catch water, so if the machine has one the TA may be in rough shape.

    Cal
    Hi guys!
    Thank you for the quick response.
    The lathe has a switch low down on the headstock base facing rearwards saying "motor, generator, start". No tubes maybe?
    Gjermund

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    Quote Originally Posted by seax View Post
    ...
    The lathe has a switch low down on the headstock base facing rearwards saying "motor, generator, start". No tubes maybe?
    Gjermund
    Yup, probably an MG machine, so no tubes. However it's over 60 years old, so someone may have modified the controls at some point.

    Cal

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    Default Flamehardened.

    Some pictures on this forum show a badge on the backside of the bed saying "flamehardened" or something similar.
    It the absence of this badge a non hardened bed or a lost badge?

    Did the 10EE come with soft ways at any time?

    Gjermund

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    All 10EE lathes have flamehardened ways. In fact all Monarch lathes made from the late 1930s have flamehardened ways. The first 10EEs were made in 1939 after the onset of all Monarch lathe ways being flamehardened.

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    "The lathe has a switch low down on the headstock base facing rearwards saying 'motor, generator, start'. No tubes maybe?"

    Not definitive.

    There were post-1949 machines which had a plate which stated, "MOTOR GENERATOR/START/STOP", and these were WiaD machines.

    Likewise, there were pre-1953 machines had a plate which stated, "CONTROL/START/STOP", and these M-G machines.

    Basically, Monarch used whatever stock was on-hand.

    Flame-hardened ways was a 1936 development of Monarch, and all Monarchs which were made in 1936 and later had such ways.

    Certain post-1936 machines, such as 10EEs, always had flame-hardened ways.

    South Bend Lathe, and others, were licensed to use the alloys and hardening burners of Monarch, and some of those have the same "Flame-Hardened Ways" logo attached to them.

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    Ok
    Thanks again.
    Gonna look at it today.

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    Bought the Monarch today !!!!

    From the pictures the owner sent me I expected everything to be rusted solid, but that was not the case. Everything that should move moved, and things that should be tight was pretty much so.
    Only exemtion was the handles on the various doors in the base. They did not move. Are these for storage or acess to systems?

    Not much extra to go with it, but I might have another look through the owner shed before I leave with it. He was not quite sure what belonged to the lathe.

    Here are some pictures.
    What is the "lump" low down on the backside? Like to get rid of that one to get it up against the wall.
    monarch-fremside.jpgmonarch-bakside.jpgmonarch-maskinskilt.jpgmonarch-tachometer.jpgmonarch-drivverk.jpg

    These are the photos sendt to me by the owner. I meant to snap my own today, but the rain was so heavy I just left my camera in the car.
    Last edited by seax; 06-29-2012 at 04:55 PM. Reason: more text

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    What language is the threading/engage knob tag on the headstock? If it is Norwegian, you might have one of the rarest EE's in existence. Looks like it has ELSR and taper. It will be a big project, but you will have a fantastic machine when you're done.

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    Quote Originally Posted by daryl bane View Post
    What language is the threading/engage knob tag on the headstock? If it is Norwegian, you might have one of the rarest EE's in existence. Looks like it has ELSR and taper. It will be a big project, but you will have a fantastic machine when you're done.
    Hi!
    Yes it is norwegian and yes it comes with ELSR and TA. All tags are in Norwegian part from the model tag in the pictures. Hard to say anything about wear until I get it home and start cleaning it. This is supposed to be a long term project, but I know I wont get the kitchen done this winter either. Not now... no way.
    Last edited by seax; 06-29-2012 at 05:15 PM. Reason: correction

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    The "lump" on the back might be another rare feature, can't tell for sure from the photo. If the dark knob rotates it might be a second spindle speed potentiometer used to set a different speed in reverse than forward (these can be interchanged by the ELSR selector knob, making it useful for both RH and LH threading).

    Is it a native inch or metric machine? In any case it's a rare one and a worthy project, if metric even rarer. There's always next year for the kitchen.

    Setting a 10EE, particularly one with ELSR and taper attachment, with its back to a wall will make emptying the chip pan more difficult than it needs to be. They were designed for chip removal from the rear, consider that in your future shop arrangement.

    Good luck with your new project.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DaveE907 View Post
    The "lump" on the back might be another rare feature, can't tell for sure from the photo. If the dark knob rotates it might be a second spindle speed potentiometer used to set a different speed in reverse than forward (these can be interchanged by the ELSR selector knob, making it useful for both RH and LH threading). ...
    That's sure what it looks like. I've only seen one other MG machine with a fast reverse pot.

    The machine appears to be a motor/generator machine. The round vent high on the back, under the tailstock, that vents a WaiD is absent.

    Cal

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    Interesting to note that is you slide over the images without clicking, the info that comes up is also in Norwegian. I would assume that the previous owner was also.

    Following with interest, as I also just bought one at auction for 3K. Came with two manuals, one which is serialed to the machine, all service records, Sony Magnascale DRO (TA was removed to mount the scales), 6" Buck six jaw, Royal collet closer, two sets of spare brushes, etc. It will arrive here in the shop next Friday (have to make some room...placing a toothpick in here requires a shoehorn).

    Lee (the saw guy)

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    Cal makes a good point about the venting, wasn't paying attention to the WiaD versus MG question. A second look paying attention to the rear cover nails it as a MG machine. The MG cooling exhaust can be barely seen behind the single vent opening in the rear cover (right one, towards the headstock).

    The fake vent screen Monarch added to the cover has always amused me, they took the time and effort to decorate the back of the machine.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DaveE907 View Post
    The "lump" on the back might be another rare feature, can't tell for sure from the photo. If the dark knob rotates it might be a second spindle speed potentiometer used to set a different speed in reverse than forward (these can be interchanged by the ELSR selector knob, making it useful for both RH and LH threading).

    Is it a native inch or metric machine? In any case it's a rare one and a worthy project, if metric even rarer. There's always next year for the kitchen.

    Setting a 10EE, particularly one with ELSR and taper attachment, with its back to a wall will make emptying the chip pan more difficult than it needs to be. They were designed for chip removal from the rear, consider that in your future shop arrangement.

    Good luck with your new project.
    The "lump" did indeed have a rotating knob. Some sort of pointer as well.
    Did not see any scale, but it might be under the chipped paint.
    Why, of all places put a speedcontroll on the backside down
    by the floor?
    Having Norwegian placards installed from the factory, I assume it is metric.
    This has not been verified. There was a handfull og small gears in a box, but I don't know
    if they are a transposing set. The combination gearbox was not an option until later I believe.

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    Conversion from a metric machine to Imperial is MUCH more complicated than the reverse.

    Imperial to metric requires just one transposer ... 48/127 on a round dial, 60/127 on a square dial, 75/127 on Series lathes, 50/127 or 100/127 on lesser lathes (SB, Logan).

    If the leadscrew is 3.0mm (and not 8 TPI), then three or perhaps even four transposers will be required to get to Imperial.

    I strongly suspect, but do not know for sure, that the metric threading machines made by Monarch for the so-called "Lend-Lease" program during WW-II had Imperial threads in the cross slide and compound.

    Much, much later, in the 1970s or 1980s, a true Imperial/metric machine was offered, and it incorporated a completely new threading gearbox (Imperial and metric in one unit), but the cross slide and compound were still Imperial, but the dials were read out as Imperial and metric in one system. The tailstock as well.

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    I can't tell, but it looks like you might have an accumulating cross-feed dial. Are the cross-feed, compound and tailstock dials graduated inch or metric?

    The only other fast reverse potentiometer that I saw was mounted on the front of the machine, under the tailstock. I can't think of any reason that yours can't be relocated to a more convenient location. I would like to see some better pictures of it, including what's inside.

    Also, how about a photo of the change gears that you have?

    Cal

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    I have not had the chance to bring the lathe home yet. I will go and pick up the small stuff and prepare it for transportation next week.
    By "prepare" I plan to remove the chuck making it les temting for the truck driver to wrap the chain or other hoistng equipment around the spindle when lifting it.
    How do the chuck come of? It is a bit rusty. But turns freely and hopefully is not rusted stuck.
    I have never taken of a chuck with this kind of locking system before.

    Pictures will folow


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