10ee square dial lubricant leaking from headstock center chamber coming out spindle

lectrician1 · Jun 2, 2021

I have oil coming out the bottom of my spindle when the spindle is running. oil is coming from the center headstock chamber.
Model 10ee MG square dial 1947
oil is flowing out pretty quickly. will empty the chamber in an hour or two of run time

Anyone have a remedy for this problem?

Thanks
Rich

TBJK · Jun 2, 2021

thermite said:
First, look back many years at threads by "RC99". His HS rebuild pursued how stuff works w/r lube management rather well and added to "the knowledge".

Treatise on 10EE Bearings.

OzEE rebuild

There are several other threads.

Cal Haines has published the proper drawings - more than a few times - along with all that discussion.

Oil isn't so much "sealed" as "managed", but it works for far, FAR lesser loss than you are reporting.

Research and plan first. Lift a wrench, later.

Oh boy more rabbit holes for me to go down.

Peter from Holland · Jun 2, 2021

I do not know the 10EE but on other lathes you have a drainhole that drains the oil that is pumped into the bearing back to the oil reservoir The oil is stop
That hole can be plugged Or there is a groove in the bearing shield that connects with the drainhole If you position that cover in the wrong position the oil cannot drain There is a labyrint seal in the bearing shield often

Peter

daryl bane · Jun 2, 2021

Check that your lathe is indeed level, and not pointing down somewhere.

Cal Haines · Jun 2, 2021

lectrician1 said:
I have oil coming out the bottom of my spindle when the spindle is running. oil is coming from the center headstock chamber.
Model 10ee MG square dial 1947
oil is flowing out pretty quickly. will empty the chamber in an hour or two of run time
...

I don't recall anyone mentioning this before.

It sounds like you have the headstock with three oil sight glasses. If so, it's a mystery how any amount of oil can move from the center reservoir into the front bearing reservoir.

Is the oil coming out around the spindle itself or through the tiny drain hole on the bottom (6 O'clock position) on the front bearing retainer. (That hole often gets painted shut.) Could the oil be coming out of the overflow hole in the bottom of the headstock casting, just above the bed?

rimcanyon has his 1949 machine's headstock torn down right now. He may have some insights into what's going on here.

Cal

rimcanyon · Jun 2, 2021

What year is your lathe? It makes a difference.

The drain hole in the front cover only gets used if the oil level is too high in the front bearing compartment. The front bearing compartment has a drain back to the sump, so maybe that drain is plugged. It requires removing the spindle to fix, so explore other alternatives first.

The main oil reservoir has an overflow at the left rear corner.

lectrician1 · Jun 3, 2021

I will take a closer look at whatever is happening and report back. Thanks

lectrician1 · Jun 3, 2021

1947 three sight glasses

1947 with three sight glasses

the oil is flowing out from the the overflow hole at 6 o'clock under the spindle AND from around the spindle.

The oil is coming from the middle reservoir

This is happening while the front bearing reservoir is not full according to the sight glass
so the fluid is not splashing from the middle to the front reservoir then out the spindle.
It is going from the middle directly out the spindle and overflow hole

I have the machine on 4x4's and the tailstock end was high by about 1/2"
I put some shims under the headstock end and it might have made the problem worse or possibly had no effect. hard to tell.

lectrician1 · Jun 3, 2021

Sight glasses are very clean. All are removed cleaned and reinstalled without the cork or metal plate with the fill line. I just use a rubber o ring to make the seal.
I am adding oil to the center reservoir. The oil is coming out the spindle and the overflow hole under the spindle when spindle is turning. The oil level in the front bearing reservoir does not change

Cal Haines · Jun 3, 2021

pbungum had the spindle out of his 54' square-dial and we worked through the details of the oil overflow passage in the headstock and the front bearing retainer. Start at post #64 and see also post #93. That still doesn't explain what's going on here, but I think we can rule out the overflow passage as being involved.

Maybe the rear slinger for the front bearings is damaged or missing?

Have you always had this problem? Does the leak happen at low speeds?

Cal

rimcanyon · Jun 3, 2021

lectrician1 said:
Sight glasses are very clean. All are removed cleaned and reinstalled without the cork or metal plate with the fill line. I just use a rubber o ring to make the seal.
I am adding oil to the center reservoir. The oil is coming out the spindle and the overflow hole under the spindle when spindle is turning. The oil level in the front bearing reservoir does not change

Try removing the overflow line for the center reservoir and see if oil comes out. Perhaps the overflow line is plugged.

There is a path that explains why oil is getting from the center reservoir to the front drain hole: if the oil is high in the center reservoir it could flow up the drain hole for the front flange, then out the weep hole.

Cal Haines · Jun 3, 2021

rimcanyon said:
...

There is a path that explains why oil is getting from the center reservoir to the front drain hole: if the oil is high in the center reservoir it could flow up the drain hole for the front flange, then out the weep hole.

The external weep hole and the passages for the front reservoir overflow are separated by the flange itself. I think if oil were coming in that way, it would have to over-fill the front reservoir until it reached the bottom of the spindle and the ID of the flange, before it could spill over and get to the weep hole.

Cal

rimcanyon · Jun 4, 2021

Yes. If the level in the center is high, then the drain from the front cover to the center section will ensure that the level in the front compartment is the same. Since lectrician is seeing oil coming out both through the weep hole and around the spindle, the level must be above the flange. So the sight glasses must not be working, perhaps the two holes are blocked.

lectrician1 · Jun 4, 2021

I removed the aluminum plates behind the sight glasses. So i can see directly into the reservoir.

Peter from Holland · Jun 4, 2021

Had it once on a Caseneuve Also leaking oil
It turned out there was some nylon strings trapped in the labyrint seal scooping up the oil

Peter

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