10ee Sundstrand drive rescue
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  1. #1
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    Default 10ee Sundstrand drive rescue

    Greetings all,
    First post, but long time reader. I just a few weeks ago rescued a 1939 10ee, serial number 7158. I have a Rivett 608, and thought that was enough of a project for me, so I found this about a mile from my house and couldn’t say no. It’s in good shape overall no major obvious problems except a few cracked cover castings and a frozen sundstrand drive. I’m guessing it was stored in an unheated space for some time. I have not indicated the ways or evaluated the machine much, but everything seems fairly clean. I am not a machinist by trade so it will more than meet my needs.

    First issue and the reason for posting, is the drive. I get it, they’re rare as hens teeth, but I figured I would put it out there...
    So I have broken it down, and after a week or so of cleaning, soaking, evaporust, unicorn tears, and a brass hammer, I have freed up everything. Most of the bearings were frozen. Some came back easily, but the worst were the wobbler bearings, the open cage main pump bearings, well, I got them. It was days in the bath, and hours of cajoling, but they’re running free and easy. The pump pistons only took a brass drift and a light tap, and they popped easily. They were retracted into the cylinders so they were fairly clean. A very few have some very light pitting on the domed bearing end, but nothing severe. So it all went back together with everything intact, free of rust and gunk, and new gaskets.

    Now the tricky part. As there’s no real information available, save Nick Scholte’s excellent write up, the 6 page service bulletin, and the monarch manual, I need to put this out:
    Does anyone have any of these, or a replacement? They’re the check valves from the input shaft end of the drive. 1/4 NPT thread, Allen head, with a spring and a valve. One is really buggered, but it does open a hair. The other seems to be opening and closing fine. Any help, or if anyone has a workaround, would be greatly appreciated.

    The other issue I’m having is with the filter, I know it’s 1939 here, but has anyone fitted a more modern filter to the housing? Asking for a friend...

    And if this all fails, it’ll get a servo motor.

    Thanks for all the help!

    JP
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails e55f8e0d-c191-4827-9969-4344fef7027e.jpg   c1b3fdfc-da8b-4de5-afb5-ded36a73ec4e.jpg   440dca35-4301-4f3f-92ca-626a033e898e.jpg   68749965-a689-4ce2-9368-2bff3e30618c.jpg  

  2. #2
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    Just a hunch, check with DFT a check valve manufacturer.

    They have similar things for industrial applications, but not if they have something for 1/4-3/8-1/2" pipe plug arrangement.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JPD View Post
    And if this all fails, it’ll get a servo motor.
    Say it ain't so, Joe ! Electronics suck

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    Well, great news, I got it to work... not sure how efficient it is, it’s yet to get into the lathe, but count one more sundstrand as found and rescued!

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    Congratulations !!
    Now: to add to the nearly nonexistant knowledge base, how about a handful of photos documenting the work on the drive unit? At least a photo of the entire drive unit before it gets buried back into the base of the lathe??

    Hope you took plenty of photos,

    DualValve

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    Ok, by popular demand... the photos.

    I’m not as focused on photography as I should be during these rebuilds. No pun intended. So forgive any missing pictures, save the end, as I will in the near future post a video of the drive running.

    Many thanks to all who have posted info on these lathes, and the sundstrand in particular. Nick Scholte, Jim Murphy for answering my emails, and all the rest.

    I did not wreck anything going in. Thanks to Nick’s great write up, I went in properly, and what I found was, in the beginning heartbreaking, but in the end was completely manageable.
    I view this as a two stage rebuild: first, to clean and render operational, in order to survey the greater condition of the machine as a whole, and to determine whether after the lathe rebuild, I deem it worthy to... second, replace all the marginal bearings, Maas source new or reconditioned check valves, and recondition the bearing faces of the pump and motor pistons and wobbler plate. That should make sense if you’ve seen inside one of these.

    On to the photos...

    69e24e78-019e-41df-a2af-5150cf4126ee.jpg37c756b5-a114-4362-ae5f-abccb71f9248.jpg0baad9fb-3f03-4700-b47e-a9291f4c7295.jpg576c115f-d5e9-4b34-b4e6-2deb750652f7.jpg6eaab4d7-282a-4a85-b989-6f2d5bee259c.jpg

    Ok that’s all you get for now... like I said I only get the broad strokes. If I do break it open again and replace bearings, maybe I’ll be inspired to do a better documentation.

    But I must say, after going in, and successfully rebuilding the driver that it is rather simple and effective. If anyone has questions, feel free to ask. Not bad for going from a completely frozen drive, with ALL bearings either slightly or completely frozen, to a more or less fullly operational drive!



    P.s. does anyone plow the belt length for the pair of main drive belts? And the flat belt for the gearbox? Can that just be a poly v belt inside out? Thanks!

    JP

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    It's amazing to me how many of the machines that are close to yours in serial number have popped up: I have photos of 7148, 7153, 7155 and now yours, 7158. Four machines, eighty years old, within 10 of one another! (And the other six machines in that range may not have even been 10EEs.) No better testament to how durable these old girls are! Of the three sisters, one for sure still had the Sundstrand drive, one had been converted and the third I don't know about.

    Could you please post some overall photos of your machine? (BTW, the photos that you posted are very low resolution, about 300 pixels, you should be able to post at least 1024 pixel photos.)

    Several people are using poly belts for their feed drive. Mine has a toothed belt, run inside out.

    Cal

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    Quote Originally Posted by JPD View Post
    But I must say, after going in, and successfully rebuilding the driver that it is rather simple and effective. If anyone has questions, feel free to ask. Not bad for going from a completely frozen drive, with ALL bearings either slightly or completely frozen, to a more or less fullly operational drive!
    Considering how much hydraulics in general have become so widely used in the years since, yes - it actually IS simple! Maintainable, even.



    Performance of the all-electric MG-drive and later is considerably better, but that doesn't mean the Sundstand drive 10EE were bad lathes as far as making stuff - just a tad less powerful.

    A common NAPA PolyVee / MicroVee "serpentine" belt can be run EITHER way. Ribs to the metal - the peaks of the mini-vees sorta mush down and grip very well - or with the slicker, but grippy ENOUGH backside to the metal, whichever suits your length and adjuster range most easily.


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