13 by 54 Series 61 Toolroom Lathe
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    Default 13 by 54 Series 61 Toolroom Lathe

    I recently picked up another 13 by 54 series 61 toolroom lathe. Serial number 41026. Built 12-1955.

    It is slightly different than my 13 by 54 series 60 toolroom lathe. The biggest difference is that this new one has rapid traverse. I am seriously contemplating removing the saddle and apron to do a good clean up. But right now my biggest question is how is the oil pump in the apron operated on this one. I know on my other one the pump operates off a cam on the hand wheel on the apron. I have been told that on the apron with the rapids the rapids runs the oil pump. Can anyone confirm for 100 Percent certainty that this is true or not.

    My next question: on these with the rapids, does the rapids motor and shaft turn all the time when the lathe is powered up?

    Mike

    img_5280.jpgimg_5279.jpgimg_5278.jpgimg_5277.jpgimg_5281.jpg

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    You photos are posting very small. Make sure you change the file extension from JPEG to JPG before posting, so that they will come in at a decent size.

    Cal

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    img_5281.jpg
    img_5278.jpg


    img_5280.jpg


    img_5279.jpg
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails img_5277.jpg  

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    img_5277.jpg


    Stragler)

    Looks like a runner

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    At or about post 134 in this Thread the oiling system on a 61 series apron is talked about.
    Same as yours ???

    Getting a Monarch Series 61 Back in Service (practicalmachinist.com)

    Edit.
    It may start around post 110. . The whole thread is well worth reading

    post 134
    Last edited by Cal Haines; 09-05-2021 at 07:06 PM. Reason: add link

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    I don't know if the lathe in that thread has the rapid traverse or not. Yes the oiling system in the apron is talked about a lot but nothing I read that would answer my question. Or even hint at it.

    thanks for the reply. still looking for an answer to my question. hoping someone here knows.

    Mike

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    Quote Originally Posted by mikethomas View Post
    I don't know if the lathe in that thread has the rapid traverse or not. Yes the oiling system in the apron is talked about a lot but nothing I read that would answer my question. Or even hint at it.

    thanks for the reply. still looking for an answer to my question. hoping someone here knows.

    Mike
    I don't have rapids, so can't answer. I didn't get to it yet, but mine has the cam type pump I need to access from bottom of apron.

    Really appreciate the parts I got from you. Sight glasses are pretty, and the glass itself in them were more clear than mine.

    I do think removing saddle and apron for a good clean up is worth while though.

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    Quote Originally Posted by texasgunsmith View Post
    I don't have rapids, so can't answer. I didn't get to it yet, but mine has the cam type pump I need to access from bottom of apron.

    Really appreciate the parts I got from you. Sight glasses are pretty, and the glass itself in them were more clear than mine.
    Glad to be able to help.

    Yeah, my other 13 by 54 has the cam pump operated by the apron hand wheel and I get lots of oil up on the ways. I am very happy with that system as it seems to work very well on my other lathe.

    Mike

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    Mike
    Not sure about the pump. On my 612 (1967), the rapid motor operates all the time that the main motor is on, clutch engaged or not. The 612 is wiredso the overload “heater” for the rapid motor kills power to the main motor too. That could be just a simplification of the electronics, or could imply the rapid motor is critical

    The tumbler you sent me is functional in the 612, many thanks.

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    Check this: http://www.vintagemachinery.org/pubs/2103/18297.pdf pg 44.
    Looks like the cam (part V59) for the oil pump is associated with the power traverse clutches in terms of parts location. I can’t tell whether the pump is active whenever the traverse motor is turning or only when the mechanism is engaged.

    From a logical perspective it wouldn’t be ideal to pump when the carriage or cross-slide isn’t moving since that’s wasted oil, but I don’t know if that is how they implemented it, as you also need oil if the traverse is not being used but you are hand or power feeding. A pump mechanism to operate under all three types of motion for both carriage and cross-slide but idle otherwise sounds too complex to be realistic.

    The series 61 brochure on that site also discusses oil pumping under the optional rapid traverse section, but doesn’t definitely say that the rapids drives apron oil pump.

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    My 1955 61 Toolmaker has power rapid but I don't know the answer to your question. If you need me to look any something I can. That other shaft doesn't move when I rapid. I'm lazy but do I really need rapid on my 30" lathe?

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    Quote Originally Posted by rickseeman View Post
    My 1955 61 Toolmaker has power rapid but I don't know the answer to your question. If you need me to look any something I can. That other shaft doesn't move when I rapid. I'm lazy but do I really need rapid on my 30" lathe?
    Yes. If your lathe is running as it should can you please tell me if the rod that powers the rapids spins as soon as you turn the power on the lathe, engage the clutch, or something else.

    Mike

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    I turned the lathe on. Only the feed rod turns. I ran both rapids. No extra shaft turned. Makes me wonder how the rapid works?

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    Quote Originally Posted by rickseeman View Post
    I turned the lathe on. Only the feed rod turns. I ran both rapids. No extra shaft turned. Makes me wonder how the rapid works?
    That would be extremely odd. Can you post a couple good pictures of the front of the lathe. Count the number of longitudinal rods on the front of the lathe including the square clutch engagement rod and lead screw. Tell me how many you see. But posting a good picture or two would be worth thousand words.

    Mike

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    5 shafts. The fastest way to post a pix would be in this thread.

    A new Monarch Club member

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    My shafts look the same as yours. My lead screw reverse rod on the top, in front of the leadscrew, is not working in forward. It works fine in reverse, threading out towards the tailstock.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rickseeman View Post
    5 shafts. The fastest way to post a pix would be in this thread.

    A new Monarch Club member
    Five is the correct number on a series 61 toolroom lathe with lead screw reverse and rapid traverse. They are: lead screw reverse, lead screw, feed rod, clutch rod, and the rapid traverse rod. The rapid traverse rod is the bottom most closest to the bed.

    Mike

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    There is a traverse rod but I wouldn't call it a rapid traverse rod. I think it turns when you feed. I just did my rapid again and no extra shafts turn.

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    I called Monarch this morning and talked to Scott. He is the go to guy there for tech info on these older lathes. Anyway, Scott confirmed what I had been told by others: On a series 61 if your lathe has rapid traverse the rapid traverse rod always turns while the motor is running. Whether the clutch is engaged or not. Also, the rapid traverse rod drives the oil pump in the apron on these. The pump is located above the round cover on the bottom center of the apron. On the series 61 without rapid traverse the pump is driven by a cam and lever off the apron hand wheel.

    Mike

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    That would make sense. That would supply power to the apron. Then you move the lever, a clutch engages, and it rapids. I thought on a lathe it was the feed rod that turns when you start up. Mine has another motor/gearbox in the headstock. I assumed it had to be the rapid. I wonder what it does? I guess I really don't have a clue how this thing works. I've never owned a Monarch before.


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