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16"? Monarch lathe near Richmond, VA - $150

hsracer201

Hot Rolled
Joined
Oct 24, 2015
I picked up a LeBlond from this guy yesterday and he has an old Monarch sitting outside for the price of scrap. $150. He has a steady rest inside a building for it. It has a lot of good handles and most (if not all?) of the taper attachment parts. I'm not a Monarch guy so I don't know. It's crude, but if someone is restoring a machine and needs parts I bet some of it can be salvaged and the rest scrapped. The steady rest alone should be worth the $150.

I have no affiliation with the guy, nor have I ever posted in this sub-forum so I hope it's okay. Just trying to spread the word.

Monarch lathe - tools - by owner - sale
 
CW 16 not quite as long as mine

Used to look like the thumbnails
 

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Bill, you forget your glasses?

QCGB handle is broken and so is one of the feed-range selectors. The apron hand-wheel is missing it's knob, as is the compound wheel, and the x-slide handle is folded into a taco.

It's a production model with the narrower feed/thread selection and no apron mounted lead screw reverse.

But hell, for $150 I'd take the micrometer carriage stop and steady rest and make out like a bandit.
 
Well, I bought this one and just finished skidding it for the move. Have been shopping for one on eBay but this was 20 miles away and impossible to resist. The gears are clean from what I can see through the filler opening. Levers are not a big deal to me and the compound cleaned up nicely. You can still see scrape marks on the way surfaces.
20180813_161721.jpg
 

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Hardened and ground ways should have zero scrape marks

Bed should have placard under front way adjacent lead screw that says FLAME HARDENED

Since this was standard as of the late thirties one would suppose it would be found on a 1941 machine

Post #2 above has brochure scan pages and the spec sheets states this was applied to beds up to 102" centers

Well, I bought this one and just finished skidding it for the move. Have been shopping for one on eBay but this was 20 miles away and impossible to resist. The gears are clean from what I can see through the filler opening. Levers are not a big deal to me and the compound cleaned up nicely. You can still see scrape marks on the way surfaces.
 
Sorry, I was referring to the short ways/gibs on the compound. I brought the compound home and it was easy and quick to clean up. The bed ways should clean up well when I have the machine inside a building. I sprayed everything with Tectyl 846 to protect surfaces from further moisture until the machine can be moved.
 
I think you will be finding you've gotten a better machine than first appeared as you go along.

Chains, timber, allthread, bottle jack, and patience, that tray can be straightened right where it sits without touching the rest of the structure or hammering, BTW.

I agree. The rust on the compound dial largely went away with a little scotchbrite. It had just bled past a few areas that were scratched. I will attempt the major straightening of the tray in place like you suggest, using the mass of the lathe to react against. Ultimately I am leaning toward breaking it down into its sections to do a more thorough inspection/cleaning/painting. My father-in-law (retired machinist) agrees there is likely very little actual wear and the damage to tray and handles is from some rough handling.

The most immediate problem is the quill is stuck in the tailstock. The quill binder was also stuck but we got it out using the hydraulic trick of removing the stud and packing the cavity with grease. Dad fitted a wooden dowel to the hole (.812") and we hammered it in. The binder post moved a bit and we just would add grease and repeat. I had heard about that trick for bearings years ago but never had a need to use it. It's awesome.

The leadscrew is free but the quill still won't move. The solution seems to be to remove the tailstock end bell and press out the quill from the back but we don't know how. I think the endbell is threaded in but there is only one small hole where a pin could be inserted to turn it. Before we mess something up I need advice from someone who has had one apart. Any suggestions? Tons of Kroil and some heat have done nada...
 
For an extreme case, get a vibration source applied to the end of it and give it time to break-down the rust and let the kroil get further in. "

Rocking or rotating around the long-axis is another input that can help break the rust-wedge down back into "rouge".

FIRST MAKE SURE... that you will NOT be "pushing" any burrs nor raised corrosion ahead of you into the bore!


2CW

Your words inspire me... It's been soaking in Kroil for a few days now, we add more as it wicks in. Sounds like a perfect application for an air impact gun. I'll put a piece of 1/2" aluminum against the end of the quill and buzz the tool against it for a while. If we can get it to move back a hair it might be able to move forward as well.

There's only 1/4" of the quill sticking out, and even that has 1/8" radius on the OD - nothing to grab to try to turn, plus the keyway on the underside prevents rotation. I'll polish up what is exposed before pushing.

Also, Steve Andrews at Monarch is looking into how the handwheel bell is attached on my particular model. He's been extremely helpful when I've called.
 
how the handwheel bell is attached

It takes great loads, and on the 20" heavy Greaves Klusman I applied my common sense and assumed threaded - so I made a jig to put in a hole at the bottom - then used the same jig with a pin in the newly drilled hole as a hook spanner to unscrew the bell.

Worked a treat

Lodge & Shipley shows threads in their cutaway here
 

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For an extreme case, get a vibration source applied to the end of it and give it time to break-down the rust and let the kroil get further in
.

^^^^^^^^^^^^This. Air hammers are the ticket.
Probably closer to turning loose than you know.


Glad to see it is being saved..................it is criminal to let one like that go to ruin....................Too bad the picture from the original ad wasn't saved for posterity.
 
Thank you John and Thermite! I just got a confirmation from Monarch that the original was threaded with two 1/4" holes at 180 for tightening/removal. I can swear I only saw one but I was wrong once before if I remember correctly. Will try again tonight after work to find the missing hole. Will let everyone know of our success or failure.
 
No, you don't want to do that, and don't NEED to do that.

Watcha do is timber-up "bridge" spans across the out-of-line parts. Chains and allthread let you straighten those with the "push" of a bottle-jack even though when first looking it it you think that you need some way to "pull".

:)

thermite -

Is this what you're getting at? A picture can describe better than I can. The red are timbers and the green arrows would be clamped together..
20180813_161721b.jpg
 
It's a production model with the narrower feed/thread selection and no apron mounted lead screw reverse.

Cole2534 - could you elaborate on this? No way to reverse the leadscrew from the apron, or no way to reverse at all?
 
Cole2534 - could you elaborate on this? No way to reverse the leadscrew from the apron, or no way to reverse at all?

CW's reverse for lead screw is on Head Stock, low between the speed levers - you must stop the spindle before moving the reverse lever. Any moving of lever causes machine to be "lost" - lead screw being then out of time with spindle - because you disengaged and then engaged gearing driving lead screw

On Edit - add link to nice CY photo in Post #3 - shows the lead screw reverse lever on apron and the "HUMP" on the top of QC gear box - typical of Monarchs of the period so equipped

https://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/monarch-lathes/1943-16-cy-344392/

Any lead screw reverse equipped lathe generally allows you to change at least at low speeds, and the most important feature is the machine does not get lost - the lead screw stays in time with the spindle. Lever low on right of apron - usually.

Suggests all sorts of things, like having no need for threading dial and NOT opening the half nuts during threading

Here is my old write up on Hendey's version - starting with post #17 in this link

Hendey lathe "emergency"!
 
Success with tailstock quill !

Thank you to all for the advice on freeing up the quill. Last night we successfully got the tailstock freed up. 3 days of adding Kroil, sharp hammer blows (against a sacrificial aluminum block) and a session with the air impact gun did the trick. The first perceptible movement was .030 so we wound the leadscrew back to home. Each time we progressed a little further, added kroil and wiped down the exposed nose. Soon we were making 1/4" progress at a time and the rust paste kept coming. There was a little pitting where the binder post was clamped after we cleaned up the area with a stone.

There are a few dings near the nose from previous owners but nothing major. We'll start on the cosmetic reconditioning shortly. I've decided on Sherwin Williams Kem Bond primer and Pro Industrial Urethane Alkyd enamel. It's local and reasonably priced.

Also anxious to have a better peek inside the headstock so we'll head out tomorrow to pop the top cover. Will post some photos shortly.
 
Condition of Headstock Gears

We had an opportunity to pop the top cover an have a look at the gearing. Couldn't be more pleased! We prelubed the dry portions of the gears, splines, and bearings with DTE Heavy Medium. Initially the spindle was a little stiff, but as we rocked it forward & reverse the stickiness vanished. We tried it in every gear position and everything moved as it should. With the clutch engaged we could even back-drive the motor through it's crusty belts by turning the spindle (only in the higher gears though because I was running out of steam in my cranking arm!)

A previous owner drilled and tapped four 1/4-20 holes in the lid casting to attach an aluminum tray (guess he wanted to hold more crap than the factory recess in the cover allowed.) These go through into the gearcase. I'm hoping he did it with the lid off and on a bench, but it would have been quicker to do it on the lathe and just let the shavings get caught by the gears...you see my concern. I'll be plugging those holes with button head screws.

All in all, the gear teeth look good, uniform wear pattern, and the inside is pretty clean. Plenty of oil in there keeping everything basically rust free.

Stupid question, but how does one drain the oil from one of these? I can see no plugs. Suck it out from the top like I've heard on some exotic cars with no oil drain plugs? I'd like to flush it to get out any moisture, drill shavings, etc..

The broken part I am holding is from the underside of the taper attachment. It's not on the Monarch parts diagram, but I think it must be a mounting block for the draw rod? The Draw Rod and Bed Bracket unfortunately are lost.
 

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The sharp corners on the big dog clutches say not usually used by King Kong the destructor - who had no clue of what the clutch was for

Indeed - the busted piece is the elegant mount for the draw rod. You will be able to see its mount holes under the tail end of the T/A

Drain plug on back under "overhang". I never saw mine for the longest time due to the huge electrical enclosure covering up the area. There is even a sight glass back there if I recall correctly

Thumbnails relate to draw rod

We had an opportunity to pop the top cover an have a look at the gearing. Couldn't be more pleased! We prelubed the dry portions of the gears, splines, and bearings with DTE Heavy Medium. Initially the spindle was a little stiff, but as we rocked it forward & reverse the stickiness vanished. We tried it in every gear position and everything moved as it should. With the clutch engaged we could even back-drive the motor through it's crusty belts by turning the spindle (only in the higher gears though because I was running out of steam in my cranking arm!)

A previous owner drilled and tapped four 1/4-20 holes in the lid casting to attach an aluminum tray (guess he wanted to hold more crap than the factory recess in the cover allowed.) These go through into the gearcase. I'm hoping he did it with the lid off and on a bench, but it would have been quicker to do it on the lathe and just let the shavings get caught by the gears...you see my concern. I'll be plugging those holes with button head screws.

All in all, the gear teeth look good, uniform wear pattern, and the inside is pretty clean. Plenty of oil in there keeping everything basically rust free.

Stupid question, but how does one drain the oil from one of these? I can see no plugs. Suck it out from the top like I've heard on some exotic cars with no oil drain plugs? I'd like to flush it to get out any moisture, drill shavings, etc..

The broken part I am holding is from the underside of the taper attachment. It's not on the Monarch parts diagram, but I think it must be a mounting block for the draw rod? The Draw Rod and Bed Bracket unfortunately are lost.
 

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Just a warning, when something has sat outside, you may look in and see what looks like a full gearbox of oil............but the oil can be setting on top of a good deal of water. ..........with the lighter gear oils, like yours should have, water should be more noticeable, heavier gear oils can fool you. Speaking from experience.
 








 
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