16"? Monarch lathe near Richmond, VA - $150
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  1. #1
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    Default 16"? Monarch lathe near Richmond, VA - $150

    I picked up a LeBlond from this guy yesterday and he has an old Monarch sitting outside for the price of scrap. $150. He has a steady rest inside a building for it. It has a lot of good handles and most (if not all?) of the taper attachment parts. I'm not a Monarch guy so I don't know. It's crude, but if someone is restoring a machine and needs parts I bet some of it can be salvaged and the rest scrapped. The steady rest alone should be worth the $150.

    I have no affiliation with the guy, nor have I ever posted in this sub-forum so I hope it's okay. Just trying to spread the word.

    Monarch lathe - tools - by owner - sale

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    CW 16 not quite as long as mine

    Used to look like the thumbnails
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails scan-03.jpg   scan-02.jpg   scan-01.jpg  

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    Quote Originally Posted by hsracer201 View Post
    I picked up a LeBlond from this guy yesterday and he has an old Monarch sitting outside for the price of scrap. $150. He has a steady rest inside a building for it. It has a lot of good handles and most (if not all?) of the taper attachment parts. I'm not a Monarch guy so I don't know. It's crude, but if someone is restoring a machine and needs parts I bet some of it can be salvaged and the rest scrapped. The steady rest alone should be worth the $150.

    I have no affiliation with the guy, nor have I ever posted in this sub-forum so I hope it's okay. Just trying to spread the word.

    Monarch lathe - tools - by owner - sale
    Worse looking ones have been fully restored rather than parted-out.

    Note that not only no broken handles or wheels, but that leadscrew, surfacing drive shaft, control rods are are still straight, despite the chip/sump pan Bubba-bending.

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    Bill, you forget your glasses?

    QCGB handle is broken and so is one of the feed-range selectors. The apron hand-wheel is missing it's knob, as is the compound wheel, and the x-slide handle is folded into a taco.

    It's a production model with the narrower feed/thread selection and no apron mounted lead screw reverse.

    But hell, for $150 I'd take the micrometer carriage stop and steady rest and make out like a bandit.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cole2534 View Post
    Bill, you forget your glasses?
    20-/15 bionics, yah don't need "glasses".

    Just envious 'coz I never had a lathe as new or as nice back when I was on the clock.


    QCGB handle is broken and so is one of the feed-range selectors. The apron hand-wheel is missing it's knob, as is the compound wheel, and the x-slide handle is folded into a taco.

    It's a production model with the narrower feed/thread selection and no apron mounted lead screw reverse.
    Details. Small shit. Lotta Nickel in MMT castings, rust not as bad as it looks.
    Yah gonna buy a Grisely instead?

    IF the spindle bearings are not trashed nor significant gear damage, it wouldn't take much..etc.

    It's in same-day go-fetch range, but WTF, I can't MOVE in my space as it is with two 10EE, two mills, the Cazeneuve, etc .etc. so... not happening, here.

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    Quote Originally Posted by thermite View Post
    Details. Small shit. Lotta Nickel in MMT castings, rust not as bad as it looks.
    Yah gonna buy a Grisely instead?
    Well hell no. There's more iron in that carriage than most grizzlys.

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    Well, I bought this one and just finished skidding it for the move. Have been shopping for one on eBay but this was 20 miles away and impossible to resist. The gears are clean from what I can see through the filler opening. Levers are not a big deal to me and the compound cleaned up nicely. You can still see scrape marks on the way surfaces.
    20180813_161721.jpg
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 20180804_171641.jpg  

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    Hardened and ground ways should have zero scrape marks

    Bed should have placard under front way adjacent lead screw that says FLAME HARDENED

    Since this was standard as of the late thirties one would suppose it would be found on a 1941 machine

    Post #2 above has brochure scan pages and the spec sheets states this was applied to beds up to 102" centers

    Quote Originally Posted by jlkunka View Post
    Well, I bought this one and just finished skidding it for the move. Have been shopping for one on eBay but this was 20 miles away and impossible to resist. The gears are clean from what I can see through the filler opening. Levers are not a big deal to me and the compound cleaned up nicely. You can still see scrape marks on the way surfaces.

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    Sorry, I was referring to the short ways/gibs on the compound. I brought the compound home and it was easy and quick to clean up. The bed ways should clean up well when I have the machine inside a building. I sprayed everything with Tectyl 846 to protect surfaces from further moisture until the machine can be moved.

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    And apologies for speaking out of turn.

    Here is my cross slide that needed some attention
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails dcp_0290.jpg  

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    Quote Originally Posted by jlkunka View Post
    Sorry, I was referring to the short ways/gibs on the compound. I brought the compound home and it was easy and quick to clean up. The bed ways should clean up well when I have the machine inside a building. I sprayed everything with Tectyl 846 to protect surfaces from further moisture until the machine can be moved.
    I think you will be finding you've gotten a better machine than first appeared as you go along.

    Chains, timber, allthread, bottle jack, and patience, that tray can be straightened right where it sits without touching the rest of the structure or hammering, BTW.

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    Quote Originally Posted by thermite View Post
    I think you will be finding you've gotten a better machine than first appeared as you go along.

    Chains, timber, allthread, bottle jack, and patience, that tray can be straightened right where it sits without touching the rest of the structure or hammering, BTW.
    I agree. The rust on the compound dial largely went away with a little scotchbrite. It had just bled past a few areas that were scratched. I will attempt the major straightening of the tray in place like you suggest, using the mass of the lathe to react against. Ultimately I am leaning toward breaking it down into its sections to do a more thorough inspection/cleaning/painting. My father-in-law (retired machinist) agrees there is likely very little actual wear and the damage to tray and handles is from some rough handling.

    The most immediate problem is the quill is stuck in the tailstock. The quill binder was also stuck but we got it out using the hydraulic trick of removing the stud and packing the cavity with grease. Dad fitted a wooden dowel to the hole (.812") and we hammered it in. The binder post moved a bit and we just would add grease and repeat. I had heard about that trick for bearings years ago but never had a need to use it. It's awesome.

    The leadscrew is free but the quill still won't move. The solution seems to be to remove the tailstock end bell and press out the quill from the back but we don't know how. I think the endbell is threaded in but there is only one small hole where a pin could be inserted to turn it. Before we mess something up I need advice from someone who has had one apart. Any suggestions? Tons of Kroil and some heat have done nada...

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    Quote Originally Posted by jlkunka View Post
    Any suggestions? Tons of Kroil and some heat have done nada...
    Iron's oxide , unrestrained, can occupy as much has 14 times the volume of the Iron IN those Oxides had done. What you get is a "wedging" effect. "Hydraulic" cement has relied on a touch of Iron since the Roman Empire was still a puppy wanting to seal water leaks.

    You don't want to press it out. Nor use a "dead blow"!

    Any bad luck, the "soft" push will take a hunk of the CI body with it. Give the Kroil some help. The Oxide has near-zero strength in SHEAR.

    For an extreme case, get a vibration source applied to the end of it and give it time to break-down the rust and let the kroil get further in.

    Rocking or rotating around the long-axis is another input that can help break the rust-wedge down back into "rouge".

    NOT so extreme case a single SHARP rap - or alternating sharp raps, opposite ends - may then break it loose.

    This is why I have hard Brass and soft Copper hammers as well as dead, dead, DEAD blow ones.

    Even Horror-Fright carry a brass hammer that should serve. Cheap enough the Jaguar has one in its expanded on-board toolkit.

    FIRST MAKE SURE... that you will NOT be "pushing" any burrs nor raised corrosion ahead of you into the bore!

    IOW polish all the bits sticking-out, pull any end-bezels you can remove so you can get at the barrel and insure it goes in "clean" rather than adding any NEW "wedge".

    2CW

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    Quote Originally Posted by thermite View Post

    For an extreme case, get a vibration source applied to the end of it and give it time to break-down the rust and let the kroil get further in. "

    Rocking or rotating around the long-axis is another input that can help break the rust-wedge down back into "rouge".

    FIRST MAKE SURE... that you will NOT be "pushing" any burrs nor raised corrosion ahead of you into the bore!


    2CW
    Your words inspire me... It's been soaking in Kroil for a few days now, we add more as it wicks in. Sounds like a perfect application for an air impact gun. I'll put a piece of 1/2" aluminum against the end of the quill and buzz the tool against it for a while. If we can get it to move back a hair it might be able to move forward as well.

    There's only 1/4" of the quill sticking out, and even that has 1/8" radius on the OD - nothing to grab to try to turn, plus the keyway on the underside prevents rotation. I'll polish up what is exposed before pushing.

    Also, Steve Andrews at Monarch is looking into how the handwheel bell is attached on my particular model. He's been extremely helpful when I've called.

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    how the handwheel bell is attached
    It takes great loads, and on the 20" heavy Greaves Klusman I applied my common sense and assumed threaded - so I made a jig to put in a hole at the bottom - then used the same jig with a pin in the newly drilled hole as a hook spanner to unscrew the bell.

    Worked a treat

    Lodge & Shipley shows threads in their cutaway here
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails l-spg7crop.jpg  

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    For an extreme case, get a vibration source applied to the end of it and give it time to break-down the rust and let the kroil get further in
    .

    ^^^^^^^^^^^^This. Air hammers are the ticket.
    Probably closer to turning loose than you know.


    Glad to see it is being saved..................it is criminal to let one like that go to ruin....................Too bad the picture from the original ad wasn't saved for posterity.

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    Thank you John and Thermite! I just got a confirmation from Monarch that the original was threaded with two 1/4" holes at 180 for tightening/removal. I can swear I only saw one but I was wrong once before if I remember correctly. Will try again tonight after work to find the missing hole. Will let everyone know of our success or failure.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jlkunka View Post
    I was wrong once before if I remember correctly.
    LOL! yeah, life can be a right bitch.

    I once thought I had made a mistake only to discover that I HAD NOT!

    There yah go.

    Wrong after all..

    Eventually got used to that....


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    Quote Originally Posted by jlkunka View Post
    I will attempt the major straightening of the tray in place like you suggest, using the mass of the lathe to react against.
    No, you don't want to do that, and don't NEED to do that.

    without touching the rest of the structure or hammering
    Watcha do is timber-up "bridge" spans across the out-of-line parts. Chains and allthread let you straighten those with the "push" of a bottle-jack even though when first looking it it you think that you need some way to "pull". Visualize that bass-ackwards, as if pulling down on the ends instead of up in the droop, and it should make more sense.

    Heavy plate for boilers and steamship hulls, the factory had some tricks. REPAIRS, done far from home, jacks, chains, and timber had to be applied to get curves to match.

    Humans are an ingenious lot about "emergency" means. Trust yer gut. It ain't really yer "gut". It's your brain, hiding-out whilst QC'ing wotever you had to eat, last cycle to see if it has to plan to go kill something or if a Visa card payment will do well enough.


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    Quote Originally Posted by thermite View Post
    No, you don't want to do that, and don't NEED to do that.

    Watcha do is timber-up "bridge" spans across the out-of-line parts. Chains and allthread let you straighten those with the "push" of a bottle-jack even though when first looking it it you think that you need some way to "pull".

    thermite -

    Is this what you're getting at? A picture can describe better than I can. The red are timbers and the green arrows would be clamped together..
    20180813_161721b.jpg


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