16"? Monarch lathe near Richmond, VA - $150 - Page 2
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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by jlkunka View Post
    thermite -

    Is this what you're getting at? A picture can describe better than I can. The red are timbers and the green arrows would be clamped together..
    Attachment 235797
    Sort of. You'll actually want to work crosswise for a lot of it. The timbers sticking out fore and aft at right angle to the long-axis as you make space. Incrementally. it will take many small successes. Every movement has a good deal of spring-back. You'll have to feel your way along as to how far to go past the desired line to compensate for that. It will be changing as you go.

    There's No Fine Way a single go will do the best job - don't expect that. It will "teach you" as you go, and come good pretty fast if you don't expect it to be simple.

    Remember that when metal is bent it stretches. It doesn't want to compress or go back exactly where it came from. Auto body work, sometimes a panel has to have a slit cut through it. You don't want to do that, nor any welding.

    Your finished job, the pan will actually have a NEW line and shape, not identical to original.

    No fear. Left and right halves of Ferrari and other exotic motorcars do not have bi-lateral symmetry, nor even humans, quite exactly. The important part is that it will again clear the other bits, the rolled edge will look "straight enough", and it will do its basic job on chip and coolant collection and control.

    It isn't a super critical F-105 wing airfoil shape, after all. Just an oddly-shaped TIN BUCKET with Colonel's pay.


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  3. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cole2534 View Post

    It's a production model with the narrower feed/thread selection and no apron mounted lead screw reverse.
    Cole2534 - could you elaborate on this? No way to reverse the leadscrew from the apron, or no way to reverse at all?

  4. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by jlkunka View Post
    Cole2534 - could you elaborate on this? No way to reverse the leadscrew from the apron, or no way to reverse at all?
    CW's reverse for lead screw is on Head Stock, low between the speed levers - you must stop the spindle before moving the reverse lever. Any moving of lever causes machine to be "lost" - lead screw being then out of time with spindle - because you disengaged and then engaged gearing driving lead screw

    On Edit - add link to nice CY photo in Post #3 - shows the lead screw reverse lever on apron and the "HUMP" on the top of QC gear box - typical of Monarchs of the period so equipped

    1943 16" cy

    Any lead screw reverse equipped lathe generally allows you to change at least at low speeds, and the most important feature is the machine does not get lost - the lead screw stays in time with the spindle. Lever low on right of apron - usually.

    Suggests all sorts of things, like having no need for threading dial and NOT opening the half nuts during threading

    Here is my old write up on Hendey's version - starting with post #17 in this link

    Hendey lathe "emergency"!

  5. #24
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    Default Success with tailstock quill !

    Thank you to all for the advice on freeing up the quill. Last night we successfully got the tailstock freed up. 3 days of adding Kroil, sharp hammer blows (against a sacrificial aluminum block) and a session with the air impact gun did the trick. The first perceptible movement was .030 so we wound the leadscrew back to home. Each time we progressed a little further, added kroil and wiped down the exposed nose. Soon we were making 1/4" progress at a time and the rust paste kept coming. There was a little pitting where the binder post was clamped after we cleaned up the area with a stone.

    There are a few dings near the nose from previous owners but nothing major. We'll start on the cosmetic reconditioning shortly. I've decided on Sherwin Williams Kem Bond primer and Pro Industrial Urethane Alkyd enamel. It's local and reasonably priced.

    Also anxious to have a better peek inside the headstock so we'll head out tomorrow to pop the top cover. Will post some photos shortly.

  6. #25
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    Default Condition of Headstock Gears

    We had an opportunity to pop the top cover an have a look at the gearing. Couldn't be more pleased! We prelubed the dry portions of the gears, splines, and bearings with DTE Heavy Medium. Initially the spindle was a little stiff, but as we rocked it forward & reverse the stickiness vanished. We tried it in every gear position and everything moved as it should. With the clutch engaged we could even back-drive the motor through it's crusty belts by turning the spindle (only in the higher gears though because I was running out of steam in my cranking arm!)

    A previous owner drilled and tapped four 1/4-20 holes in the lid casting to attach an aluminum tray (guess he wanted to hold more crap than the factory recess in the cover allowed.) These go through into the gearcase. I'm hoping he did it with the lid off and on a bench, but it would have been quicker to do it on the lathe and just let the shavings get caught by the gears...you see my concern. I'll be plugging those holes with button head screws.

    All in all, the gear teeth look good, uniform wear pattern, and the inside is pretty clean. Plenty of oil in there keeping everything basically rust free.

    Stupid question, but how does one drain the oil from one of these? I can see no plugs. Suck it out from the top like I've heard on some exotic cars with no oil drain plugs? I'd like to flush it to get out any moisture, drill shavings, etc..

    The broken part I am holding is from the underside of the taper attachment. It's not on the Monarch parts diagram, but I think it must be a mounting block for the draw rod? The Draw Rod and Bed Bracket unfortunately are lost.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 20180817_160930.jpg   20180817_160939.jpg   20180817_161652.jpg   20180819_211358.jpg  

  7. #26
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    The sharp corners on the big dog clutches say not usually used by King Kong the destructor - who had no clue of what the clutch was for

    Indeed - the busted piece is the elegant mount for the draw rod. You will be able to see its mount holes under the tail end of the T/A

    Drain plug on back under "overhang". I never saw mine for the longest time due to the huge electrical enclosure covering up the area. There is even a sight glass back there if I recall correctly

    Thumbnails relate to draw rod

    Quote Originally Posted by jlkunka View Post
    We had an opportunity to pop the top cover an have a look at the gearing. Couldn't be more pleased! We prelubed the dry portions of the gears, splines, and bearings with DTE Heavy Medium. Initially the spindle was a little stiff, but as we rocked it forward & reverse the stickiness vanished. We tried it in every gear position and everything moved as it should. With the clutch engaged we could even back-drive the motor through it's crusty belts by turning the spindle (only in the higher gears though because I was running out of steam in my cranking arm!)

    A previous owner drilled and tapped four 1/4-20 holes in the lid casting to attach an aluminum tray (guess he wanted to hold more crap than the factory recess in the cover allowed.) These go through into the gearcase. I'm hoping he did it with the lid off and on a bench, but it would have been quicker to do it on the lathe and just let the shavings get caught by the gears...you see my concern. I'll be plugging those holes with button head screws.

    All in all, the gear teeth look good, uniform wear pattern, and the inside is pretty clean. Plenty of oil in there keeping everything basically rust free.

    Stupid question, but how does one drain the oil from one of these? I can see no plugs. Suck it out from the top like I've heard on some exotic cars with no oil drain plugs? I'd like to flush it to get out any moisture, drill shavings, etc..

    The broken part I am holding is from the underside of the taper attachment. It's not on the Monarch parts diagram, but I think it must be a mounting block for the draw rod? The Draw Rod and Bed Bracket unfortunately are lost.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails p1000031.jpg   p1000032.jpg  

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    Just a warning, when something has sat outside, you may look in and see what looks like a full gearbox of oil............but the oil can be setting on top of a good deal of water. ..........with the lighter gear oils, like yours should have, water should be more noticeable, heavier gear oils can fool you. Speaking from experience.

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  10. #28
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    Default Draw Rod photos

    Quote Originally Posted by johnoder View Post

    Indeed - the busted piece is the elegant mount for the draw rod. You will be able to see its mount holes under the tail end of the T/A
    Thank you John - a picture is worth 1000 words. Crazy how they extended the casting with a relief to clear the sector gear. The engineer in me would have picked a centerline for the rod 1/4" lower and shortened the casting a bunch, just run the round bar under the taper attachment. Since I'll be making these parts that's just what I might do. I could just use a piece of cold rolled for the block then. In studying your photo, I'll have to be careful to keep everything low-profile enough to be able to travel inside the frame casting of the taper attachment.

    I'll bend down lower and look under the overhang. My electrical box is small enough not to get in the way.

    Quote Originally Posted by rj1939 View Post
    Just a warning, when something has sat outside, you may look in and see what looks like a full gearbox of oil............but the oil can be setting on top of a good deal of water. ..........with the lighter gear oils, like yours should have, water should be more noticeable, heavier gear oils can fool you. Speaking from experience.
    Bingo, hence my wish to drain what is there. I doubt enough water got in to have the level as high as the bottom of the lowest gears, but any water at all is too much.

    Thank you both for your insight.

  11. #29
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    Have a busted draw rod bed clamp you are welcome to. I'll see if it might fit in a medium flat rate box

    Of course it won't be LOWER as contemplated - though the slot for draw rod is open bottomed
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails dcp_0964.jpg  

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    Awesome!

    I think if I machined the broken shoulder off the back to a square surface, I could fab a notched mild steel bar and make a bolted assembly matching the original dimensions for the way. How thick is the casting in the vertical direction? looks 1/2"-ish, maybe enough for 3/8" bolts or certainly 5/16" fine thread..

    PM me for payment instructions and my address..
    ..and Thank You once again, I imagine this would be an expensive part from Monarch.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jlkunka View Post
    Awesome!

    I think if I machined the broken shoulder off the back to a square surface, I could fab a notched mild steel bar and make a bolted assembly matching the original dimensions for the way. How thick is the casting in the vertical direction? looks 1/2"-ish, maybe enough for 3/8" bolts or certainly 5/16" fine thread..

    PM me for payment instructions and my address..
    ..and Thank You once again, I imagine this would be an expensive part from Monarch.
    User vettebob made a pattern and has cast rather a lot of the lighter one for the 10EE in shiney-wood. He then added the steel rod - which is threaded, not notched in the case of the 10EE. I have a set, and they were a "drop in" fit, 1944 10EE.

    Keeping in mind that you are looking at a broken casting EACH END? You might be ahead to fab your ones as steel weldments. A shear pin might be wise. No point in reducing risk of breakage in the cheaper parts, only to overstress a more expensive assembly.

    2CW

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    Quote Originally Posted by thermite View Post

    Keeping in mind that you are looking at a broken casting EACH END? You might be ahead to fab your ones as steel weldments. A shear pin might be wise. No point in reducing risk of breakage in the cheaper parts, only to overstress a more expensive assembly.

    2CW
    The broken casting is just at the end with the gear rack. No second casting at the pivot end.

    I can't picture the Draw Rod seeing any bending in use, just the linear force against the slide - am I correct? If so, I don't see why I couldn't face off my broken bracket to square the end, counterbore it from the back for a SHCS, and butt a piece of round bar with internally threaded ends to use as the Draw Rod. One 3/8-16 grade 8 bolt would give ample clamp force.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jlkunka View Post
    The broken casting is just at the end with the gear rack. No second casting at the pivot end.

    I can't picture the Draw Rod seeing any bending in use, just the linear force against the slide
    Seems so. But then again.. we see a helluva lot of broken bits, yah?

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    Default Don't you hate it when...

    ..you tear into the lathe a bit to get the motor running, and find out that someone did a rewind and only had it wound for 440? This is the second time this has happened to me. So i can't run it off my portable generator, which only does 220v 3 phase.

    It has a reversing starter that is undersized for 7-1/2 hp on low voltage as well. I have another 7-1/2 hp motor that is dual voltage and I know it works, so I'll have to swap it to get things spinning. Wasn't planning on grunting a 284 frame motor in and out more than once...
    Last edited by jlkunka; 08-28-2018 at 07:37 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jlkunka View Post
    ..you tear into the lathe a bit to get the motor running, and find out that someone did a rewind and only had it wound for 440? This is the second time this has happened to me. So i can't run it off my portable generator, which only does 220v 3 phase.

    It has a reversing starter that is undersized for 7-1/2 hp on low voltage as well. I have another 7-1/2 hp motor that is dual voltage and I know it works, so I'll have to swap it to get things spinning. Wasn't planning on grunting a 284 frame motor in and out more than once...
    I feel your pain but, at least you've got another motor.
    When it comes to the starter, I'd go with something in a NEMA size 2, size 1 will work but if you get a voltage drop during startup the arc will burn the contacts quick. I like to stay with the old style NEMA rated stuff, Allen Bradley and Square D stuff is rebuildable & lasts almost forever, the newer stuff, not so much.

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    Oh yea, Congrats on the great score, sometimes I wish my Monarch 60 was bigger (just not when I move it).

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    Quote Originally Posted by jlkunka View Post
    ..you tear into the lathe a bit to get the motor running, and find out that someone did a rewind and only had it wound for 440? This is the second time this has happened to me. So i can't run it off my portable generator, which only does 220v 3 phase.

    It has a reversing starter that is undersized for 7-1/2 hp on low voltage as well. I have another 7-1/2 hp motor that is dual voltage and I know it works, so I'll have to swap it to get things spinning. Wasn't planning on grunting a 284 frame motor in and out more than once...
    DC motors - 180 Volters most of all - are not exactly light entertainment either. I've used a 2-ton engine hoist, a HF hydraulic-jack die table, and an overhead beam trolley.

    What worked best has been built-up HF furniture dolleys with a pair of steel Ell angle rails, greased. Then sliding the heavy buggers about with a short wooden pry bar and a steel jemmy, then poly wedges to shim into place and fasten down.

    All that said.. 28 August was a while ago, and you've gone too-long off the radar.

    Where do you stand NOW?

    "The World Wonders"

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  21. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by thermite View Post

    All that said.. 28 August was a while ago, and you've gone too-long off the radar.

    Where do you stand NOW?

    "The World Wonders"
    Progress, slow but steady. The lathe is disassembled except for the headstock and lower gearbox. Saddle is disconnected from apron, and feed rod/threading leadscrew is disconnected from front of lathe. Apron is sitting on blocks more or less "in place". Not enough oil in apron to reach pump pickup, but I added some kerosene and spinning the handwheel produces burps of oil at the copper tube that went to the saddle.

    I'm currently en route from Phoenix on business so I will post some pics later this week.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jlkunka View Post
    Progress, slow but steady. The lathe is disassembled except for the headstock and lower gearbox. Saddle is disconnected from apron, and feed rod/threading leadscrew is disconnected from front of lathe. Apron is sitting on blocks more or less "in place". Not enough oil in apron to reach pump pickup, but I added some kerosene and spinning the handwheel produces burps of oil at the copper tube that went to the saddle.

    I'm currently en route from Phoenix on business so I will post some pics later this week.
    Yer ahead of me. But THAT should scare you... actually..


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    Default Progress Update

    Still puzzling over how the spacers come off the headstock shaft (first photo). No external features to grab or turn - the outer nut had a spanner hole and setscrews, and came off easily. Next photo shows condition of gearing in the apron, which was pretty dry. Surface crud like this has cleaned off very well in my experience in other areas..

    Next an underside view of the plumbing in the cross slide. I won't remove the cross slide until I have a suitable way of supporting it during transport to my shop.

    In the next photo look at the chasing dial worm (I think?) in the upper left. It is above the threading leadscrew and looks pretty trashed, but I can't get a good look until I pull the apron assembly away from the bed. Is this engaged all the time? That one concerns me and would be the first component with significant wear, considering the condition the lathe was left in..

    Last, interesting that the gearing at the end of the feed rod and threading screw were still oily (despite the cobwebs) under their cast iron cover.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 20181101_074136.jpg   20181108_074855.jpg   20181108_074904.jpg   20181109_075500.jpg   20181030_083343.jpg  



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