1940 10ee

Hello all. I'm new to this whole monarch thing and happen to stumble upon a nice'ol 10EE at my place of employment. And b.s.ed my way to taking ownership, What does a weld shop need a Monarch 10ee for? Right. She's has a built date of 2-1940 and a serial number of 7196. It also has the Sundstrand hydro. unit. Overall a really clean original unit, it was repainted and the side motor cover was repaired. Now the questions, I would like to give'er a tune-up as she does run under power, and the oil(fluids)are gonna be rather old. Not looking to do a restoration just a frame on type. So what am I gonna need to look out for when going over her? I understand they are built like a brick "out"house so shouldn't be overly concerned. Just want the brain trust input. Also is there a way to find out who the machine was originally sold to? Pre-war and all, government?

some more photos

NICE SAVE!! you have some good machine karma on your side now.

mzoom007 said:

Hello all. I'm new to this whole monarch thing and happen to stumble upon a nice'ol 10EE at my place of employment. And b.s.ed my way to taking ownership, What does a weld shop need a Monarch 10ee for? Right. She's has a built date of 2-1940 and a serial number of 7196. It also has the Sundstrand hydro. unit. Overall a really clean original unit, it was repainted and the side motor cover was repaired. Now the questions, I would like to give'er a tune-up as she does run under power, and the oil(fluids)are gonna be rather old. Not looking to do a restoration just a frame on type. So what am I gonna need to look out for when going over her? I understand they are built like a brick "out"house so shouldn't be overly concerned. Just want the brain trust input. Also is there a way to find out who the machine was originally sold to? Pre-war and all, government?

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Yes, there is. Contact Monarch Lathe by telephone or email:

Monarch EE Series | Monarch Lathes

Contact Us | Monarch Lathes

.. with your serial number (on the flat way, TS END of the bed as well as on the data plate, TS end of the base).

Order a manual - about $75 - and specify that you'd like to know to whom it was shipped and how equipped.

Their specific files by SN will even tell you what chuck(s), collet(s), TA, wotever else - were on the original order.

And.. there is an electrical diagram as well as part-ordering lists.

CAVEAT: They can tell you better than I, but AFAIK, they do not have parts for the Sundstrand drive system itself any longer. Fasteners, bearings, felt way wipers, etc, they generally do have.

Other things? They generally have a (limited) stash of used-but-good parts. They have ALL the original drawings. They can make rather a lot of other parts from scratch, but.. as with any other Machine shop, they now have to charge present-day prices, can no longer charge 1940 prices!

Sundstrand hydraulic drive 10EE HAVE been rebuilt, several threads are "right here on PM". Some started with badly damaged components, but a way was found.

There's no rush to jump up and think you have to convert it to some other drive system.

Clean 'er up, plan to sooner or later replace some seals and such as well as flushing and refilling the fluids, and just run what yah got for a while.

Nice, is that a long bed or a short base under that? Don't think I ever looked at a hydro unit and took note.

rakort said:

Nice, is that a long bed or a short base under that? Don't think I ever looked at a hydro unit and took note.

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It does say 20" on the tag.

Hey thanks guys for the quick response. On the tags it says 12.5" actual swing and 20" between centers. And thermite thanks for your input thats exactly what I need to do. Get ahold of Monarch and inquire about the serial # and buy a manual. As for the TS bed stamping all it says is 'Inspected by H.G.B. LU1 Nm. 7196'. As for the Sundstrand unit how would I know if it is need of a rebuild. As I stated earlier this machine almost never gets used here and for a damn near 80 year old hasn't been abused. All seems original except paint and twist lock plugs going to the motor. The bigger pain in the a** will be bringing it down from the second floor and into its new home.

mzoom007 said:

Hey thanks guys for the quick response. On the tags it says 12.5" actual swing and 20" between centers. And thermite thanks for your input thats exactly what I need to do. Get ahold of Monarch and inquire about the serial # and buy a manual. As for the TS bed stamping all it says is 'Inspected by H.G.B. LU1 Nm. 7196'. As for the Sundstrand unit how would I know if it is need of a rebuild. As I stated earlier this machine almost never gets used here and for a damn near 80 year old hasn't been abused. All seems original except paint and twist lock plugs going to the motor. The bigger pain in the a** will be bringing it down from the second floor and into its new home.

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Looks to me as if it has been refurbed at least once, already.

AFAIK, the earliest 10EE - up into late 1941 or early 1942 "inline exciter" MG models - used flat-belts for final-drive.

I could be wrong, etc. but thought ALL even earlier Sundstrand drive units had done as well.

The British CVA copy only used vee belts AFAIK and they were Sundstrand box machines.

thermite your right it has been rebuilt refurbished at least once. It has a nice seafoam green metallic paint. Sixties/Seventies? And the lower cover was repaired, split in half along the vent openings. Waiting on Monarch to get back to me. So in the mean time what have others done to hotrod, make an already great tool even better? Fluids, tooling, just lip stick? Otherwise for a tool it is a really good looking machine

Question what do you all mean by AFAIK. Im not as young as you guys. I was born in the 70's

mzoom007 said:

Question what do you all mean by AFAIK. Im not as young as you guys. I was born in the 70's

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“As far as I know”


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mzoom007 said:

Question what do you all mean by AFAIK. Im not as young as you guys. I was born in the 70's

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Hitler was still running the The Turd Reich, Roosevelt the USA, and Hiroshima and Nagasaki were still "going concerns" when I was born.

Coms links were SLOW, character-count was precious. Private company, government organization, or major telegraph carriers alike all had "code books" to get more for their money in less time. The first "girdle 'round the Earth" predecessor to the internet, completed 1898, was only FOUR WORDS PER MINUTE capable, and time-of-day alternate SIMPLEX (one-way at a time, then change-over and run traffic the other way) at that.

The British Government had absolute priority over all comers on that "net", a message that traversed in two minutes might have waited two WEEKS in the queue before rising to the top of the pile, then require another two DAYS at the receiving end to rise up the pile being decoded and finally being dispatched for delivery by bicycle courier.

As link speed grew, need for the use of it had grown as fast or faster, so all this wasn't THAT much better by the onset of WWII, or Pearl Harbour would not have been a "sneak attack".

I first learned telegraph codes such as "NNN" for message eNNNds. Amateur Radio had a set of their own, too "73" being a common way to end an amicable session.

You can look most of those up, same as those used on the 'net, such as IIRC, AFAIK, FWIW, and far more used nowadays on handhelds by the sexting ear-bud generation.

Oh.. one bit of irony.. modern packetized messaging has so VERY damned-much error-correction and recovery, security encapsulation, and outright GARBAGE attached as protocol "headers" and logging evidence that it NOW takes 10 to 20 times as much bandwidth to move the b****y "overhead" as it does the actual content of a message.

Send yourself a test email message with 8 bytes. "TEST" as subject. "TEST" as the only text.

Typical size will be 5 to 8 KILOBYTES at the receiving end.

Headers, mostly.

Progress? Go figure!

NNN

mzoom007 said:

Question what do you all mean by AFAIK. Im not as young as you guys. I was born in the 70's

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I was born in the 60's AFAIK

thermite said:

Hitler was still running the The Turd Reich, Roosevelt the USA, and Hiroshima and Nagasaki were still "going concerns" when I was born.

Coms links were SLOW, character-count was precious. Private company, government organization, or major telegraph carriers alike all had "code books" to get more for their money in less time. The first "girdle 'round the Earth" predecessor to the internet, completed 1898, was only FOUR WORDS PER MINUTE capable, and time-of-day alternate SIMPLEX (one-way at a time, then change-over and run traffic the other way) at that.

The British Government had absolute priority over all comers on that "net", a message that traversed in two minutes might have waited two WEEKS in the queue before rising to the top of the pile, then require another two DAYS at the receiving end to rise up the pile being decoded and finally being dispatched for delivery by bicycle courier.

As link speed grew, need for the use of it had grown as fast or faster, so all this wasn't THAT much better by the onset of WWII, or Pearl Harbour would not have been a "sneak attack".

I first learned telegraph codes such as "NNN" for message eNNNds. Amateur Radio had a set of their own, too "73" being a common way to end an amicable session.

You can look most of those up, same as those used on the 'net, such as IIRC, AFAIK, FWIW, and far more used nowadays on handhelds by the sexting ear-bud generation.

Oh.. one bit of irony.. modern packetized messaging has so VERY damned-much error-correction and recovery, security encapsulation, and outright GARBAGE attached as protocol "headers" and logging evidence that it NOW takes 10 to 20 times as much bandwidth to move the b****y "overhead" as it does the actual content of a message.

Send yourself a test email message with 8 bytes. "TEST" as subject. "TEST" as the only text.

Typical size will be 5 to 8 KILOBYTES at the receiving end.

Headers, mostly.

Progress? Go figure!

NNN

Click to expand...

How Long would it have taken to get that message back then compared to now (less than one second).

labeeman said:

How Long would it have taken to get that message back then compared to now (less than one second).

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MTA logs will show that the typical SMTP session is under two TENTHS of a second, handshakes and all.

Back then?

Basically, no one had the need but a Government, and no one could afford it but a Government or major corporation.

Look at the early-days Associated Press (AP), United Press International (UPI) and Reuters "wire service" news-feeds even into the 1950's.

Friend's Dad owned an AM radio station. We'd watch those come in on the teletype before the newscaster tore them off and read them out over the air.

Terse, even when a major WAR had begun.

Parts orders are an example. Look, online, at old Niles-Bement-Pond catalogs. The goods each had a telegraph "code" as SKU for ordering.

Same again much more recently, the private networks run for major airplane builder's spare parts and maintenance bulletins.

Now? Cantonese Wife puts a many-course meal on the table - even a simple "brunch", climbs up on a chair, sends a high-res colour photo off her handheld to the extended family all over the world to show that Mother is about to enjoy another great meal.

I kid you not. Twice a day. Every day. Just our one family. Even when eating-out, any decent restaurant. And we don't "do" Mickey-Dee's..

I tease her that "food porn" is a Chinese thing, sex-porn a Western-world thing.

Seems it depends on which one each culture has had to do without most often and which one they would MISS the most in time of shortage?

BTW.. "Durex" once published stats that the mainland Chinese use more of their condoms per-capita than any other nation, so...

..if a new set of "A" section Vee belts for a 10EE smell funny... blame recycling?

10EEs have been available with twin V-belt drive from the very beginning. Both the 1939 10EE brochure and the 1939 patent (US patent 2381422) clearly show dual V-belts. I don't know at what point that flat-belt drive became on option. I have ten or so photos of Sundstrand machines; only one has a flat belt drive and it may not be original.

Brian, The Sundstrand machines have a different, smaller base that the MG machines. The base was redesigned to accommodate the inline MG. That base was then slightly modified to make room for the piggy back exciter.

mzoom007, Make sure you ask Monarch exactly what you'll get for your $75 and be prepared to be disappointed. They have pretty good support for square-dials, but almost none for round-dials. You'll probably get a bad photocopy of the manual. Make sure that Terrie understands that you have a Sundstrand drive so she will send the Sundstrand manual. If you're OK spending $75 for the build sheet, which shows who bought the machine and how it was equipped, then great.

Cal

Cal Haines said:

10EEs have been available with twin V-belt drive from the very beginning. Both the 1939 10EE brochure and the 1939 patent (US patent 2381422) clearly show dual V-belts. I don't know at what point that flat-belt drive became on option. I have ten or so photos of Sundstrand machines; only one has a flat belt drive and it may not be original.

Brian, The Sundstrand machines have a different, smaller base that the MG machines. The base was redesigned to accommodate the inline MG. That base was then slightly modified to make room for the piggy back exciter.

mzoom007, Make sure you ask Monarch exactly what you'll get for your $75 and be prepared to be disappointed. They have pretty good support for square-dials, but almost none for round-dials. You'll probably get a bad photocopy of the manual. Make sure that Terrie understands that you have a Sundstrand drive so she will send the Sundstrand manual. If you're OK spending $75 for the build sheet, which shows who bought the machine and how it was equipped, then great.

Cal

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?? Terrie probably knows from the low S/N well before she even pulls the files that it is a Sundstrand drive. The files being per-machine and by S/N, one couldn't make an error even on-purpose.

As to early machines and scant info?

My manual has a bendayed illustration of every part that existed on it or was optional for my '42 round dial.

Not good enough to MAKE the part - actual prints cost a LOT more - but surely good enough to identify it properly. Even if "challenging, as it can be in some cases, it works.

There is, as they say "no second place winner" on documentation for these old machines, and FWIW - $75 doesn't really even buy a good pair of shoes, dead-average steel-toad boots, or even a NICE meal-out for two these days. Right about one tankful of gas, actually.

More's the pity..

Back to the lathe. That "smaller base (casting" makes it harder to do a drive-type conversion and maintain or gain any power.

There isn't as much space for an electric motor - DC or AC - as MG-era, "engine room" end of the casting has, and waay less space than Modular-era.

Sundstrand

That is the cleanest, most complete Monarch Sundstrand I have seen. Cal is correct, when I received my copy of the Monarch manual, it was very poor and I did not receive the Sundstrand Manual with it. I found the Sundstrand manual here at PM. If you can’t find it , send me an email at [email protected] and I’ll send it.
If you type sundstrand and/or Monarch in the search engine here, you will find lots of info. Just from the photos, your machine looks like it may have been in a place where it had light use over 80 years. You will find here the correct fluids for your machine. Call or text me if you can’t find them. Have fun with your machine
Jim Murphy
(619)994-9497