1940 Monarch 18-CBB Rear Spindle Leak

Hoping someone can help me out here.

The 1940 Monarch 18-CBB I have is leaking at the rear spindle. Its not pouring out, but seeping. There is an oil deflector ring and oil deflector and looks like between that and the spacer collars and locking nuts (this is what creates the pre-load for the spindle bearings) are is where the leaks is. As it runs, oil leaks. At higher speeds is worse as expected. The good news is I know I am getting oil to the rear spindle bearing.

I was wondering if:

1. Has anyone dealt with this before and what what the fix?

2. How do you remove the Oil Deflector Ring and Oil Ring?

3. Is this normal?

If anyone has any suggestions for corrective actions, it would greatly appreciated.

Will

I managed to get the spindle out enough to remove the rear bearing, oil ring and oil deflector. There is an interface between the two and its very loose. I don't know what it should be, but I may have to call Monarch to see if they can assist.

I checked the oil return passage and it clear. I wonder if the metering valve is bad and pushing too much oil to the bearing and the return is fast enough.

The interface difference is .022 inch. Not sure what the design is supposed to be.... See below. the two pieces are placed together and I pushed the to opposite sides to show the gap.







Will

Hi Will,
I have the same problem with my 14C. Maybe we have the same issue. Hoping to hear you solved it.
Keith

I spoke with Rob at Monarch and he was very helpful. I provided pictures and measurements of the two parts. They said the measurements were within .0015-.005 of the tolerances. They were not able to share the drawing but was was very happy they dug into the archives to help.

A couple things to look at and do. I am going to replace the metering valves. The replacements if the ones installed are correct are Bijur FJB-5. These allow for the most fluid and as Rob said, at the cost of the bearings, more oil is good. If someone has their lid off and can verify there part number I would very appreciative.

The other thing is the oil drain back to the sump. It’s open but not sure if there are any restrictions, meaning is the diameter fully open. Rob was not able to find a hole diameter for the drain. I am going to fit up the closet size reamer and ensure the passage is fully open.

Lastly, when I placed the two pieces together the oil ring wobbled on the oil deflector. According to the drawing the surfaces should be ground flat. I am going to clean up the surfaces to ensure they mate properly. I assume with the wobble oil was getting behind the plate and thus leaking out.

I will work on it this weekend and see how it all comes out.

Will


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I needed to pull the race out of the housing to get to the full drain. When I did I say some large pitting right where the oil ring would run. I assume this would also cause leakage out of the main bearing area as well. This is going to be a JB weld job to patch that pit.




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I sanded down the JB Weld. Came out good. Reinstalled the shaft and got all the set screws back in place. Made sure the oils drain was wide open. Changed all the metering valves out with new FJB-5’s. Installed the oil deflector plate as it was when I took it out which was flush with the housing. At full rpm (487) it leaked. I then tapped the oil deflector to sit flush with the oil ring which means it’s now recessed. The oil leak seemed to stop. Been running for 20 minutes this far and no leaks. The bearings are getting warm on front and back but not hot. I’m gonna let it run for a a good while and see if it still runs with no leaks.


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I'd like to hear if it continues to not leak. Maybe this is my problem too. How hard was it too move the shaft enough to remove the oil deflector? Thanks for all your info.

After talking with Monarch they initially told me I was using the right oil which is SAE-30/ISO-100. They messaged me and told me they made a mistake and the oil should be ISO-68.

I changed the oil and set the oil deflector flush with the housing and it leaked again. I called Monarch and asked what the OD is for the oil ring. 4.857 is the size. I measured mine it is 4.853-4.854. I beleive I have blow by due to the under size. I then tapped the oil deflector back in and the leaked stopped again.

Now prior to assembling the spindle I resurfaced the faces so they are both flat to one another. When I have initially tested this when using the ISO-100 oil and when I disassembled it a oil seal was created between the two and there was no metal to metal contact.

Monarch said there is not supposed to be any oil between the oil ring and the oil deflector. Closing this gap seems To have resolved the issue. I am still getting lube to the bearing and no excessive heat is detected.

Options are to run as is or machine a new oil ring. For now I am going to run as is as long as I don’t have any abnormal noise or heat.

For the oil, I know there are folks using lathe manuals they find on the internet or from watching you-tube videos that showed SAE-30. Some may use SAE-30. Some may use SAE-20 as mine does according to Monarch. So be careful which oil you use.

I hope this has helped some out.

Will


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Will,
I'm a little confused about what you mean by tapping the oil deflector back in - prior to this you tapped it flush with the housing. I've never seen my oil ring and deflector, so any more pics or info would help me to understand. In post #2 is your picture showing oil deflector on the outside and oil ring inside? Do you have any pictures of them in the headstock?
Thanks, Keith

Keith,

See below picture.

To the right is the oil ring also know as the labryith oil seal. This is item 55 in the manual.

The part on the left is the oil deflector, part 54. This is what you are looking at at the back of your lathe and it had two locking screws 180 degrees apart from one another.

These are placed in the sequence they in install and shown. The next picture is showing the bearing, oil ring, and deflector. This is how it is inside the headstock. The last picture shows the deflector (part 54) installed. Note this is shown tapped in. I did not force it in, just lightly tapped until it stopped. Keep in mind, If you have to pull the oil deflector out, you may have to tap the spindle out. This requires removing various locking screws and pins.







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kqua said:

Will,
I'm a little confused about what you mean by tapping the oil deflector back in - prior to this you tapped it flush with the housing. I've never seen my oil ring and deflector, so any more pics or info would help me to understand. In post #2 is your picture showing oil deflector on the outside and oil ring inside? Do you have any pictures of them in the headstock?
Thanks, Keith

Click to expand...

Keith. Forgot to mention when it’s fully assembled, you cannot see the bearing, oil ring and oil deflector.

Will


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Will,
Thanks! so much for your info and pics. Any chance you could enlarge those last photos?
Keith

Will,
Looked at your photos again, and they are good enough, so no need to enlarge. I understand it now, just need time to take a look at my 14C.
I really appreciate you documenting this.
Keith