1941 Round Missing Gears

I have a new to me 10ee that apparently (really) is missing a gear set near the change gears on the lathe . The feed position on the thread/feed knob does nothing. Looking in the hole where the gear set should be I note a gear moving in and out with the thread/feed knob. Any idea where I can get the missing part? Lathe was a bargain at $600. Thanks

allfoden said:

I have a new to me 10ee that apparently (really) is missing a gear set near the change gears on the lathe . The feed position on the thread/feed knob does nothing. Looking in the hole where the gear set should be I note a gear moving in and out with the thread/feed knob. Any idea where I can get the missing part? Lathe was a bargain at $600. Thanks

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With limited description, pictures will help tell the story a lot better. Also research of the millions of pictures out there will help. Ohh BTW what year / model lathe is this?

The only thing I know for sure about this post is you got a great price on a 10ee

Don’t know how to post a photo

Mea culpa. Sorry I did not check the box “I hereby certify searching the site before posting a question”. Just a very old retired engineer trying to get by. Please remove my post. Thank you

Which of the gears below are you missing?

rke[pler said:

Which of the gears below are you missing?

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And if it is one of those in the picture, there is a very good chance I may have one in new condition...

thermite said:

No fear. Some of us are just older-er and retireder-er, and wondering if we WILL "get by"!



But I can't figure out - on either of my round-dials ('42 and '44) - what "hole" it is you are peeking into that seems to indicate there is a gear "missing" and other gears moving.

Action of the < Left hand || Feed || Right hand > .. knob for the dog clutch shifter fork, HS upper cavity... doesn't seem to be what you are describing.

Or is it?

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Thermite, you scared him off! Next time be a bit nicer, if that’s within the realm of possible actions. At least wait until its clear what the problem is.

allfoden said:

Mea culpa. Sorry I did not check the box “I hereby certify searching the site before posting a question”. Just a very old retired engineer trying to get by. Please remove my post. Thank you

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No we will not remove your post.

But we are happy to help. I'm still stoked on the $ you paid for the lathe and would love to see it.

I'm not a retired engineer YET, but looking forward to that!

If you can get digital pictures on your computer I can help to get them on here which will help us help you!

There is enormous and a lots of people willing to help.

Kind Regards
Brian aka rakort

Zahnrad Kopf said:

And if it is one of those in the picture, there is a very good chance I may have one in new condition...

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I'm interested in this pix for a number of reasons. I don't think I noticed this before.....

#1 this is a super early RD

#2 It has double v belt for the main drive....EARLY



#3 Apparently a tail stock hand wheel on the speed control!



#4 what the hell is this lever!?




Zahnrad thanks for the awesome ee picture!!

rakort said:

I'm interested in this pix for a number of reasons. I don't think I noticed this before.....

#1 this is a super early RD

#2 It has double v belt for the main drive....EARLY

View attachment 279736

#3 Apparently a tail stock hand wheel on the speed control!

View attachment 279737

#4 what the hell is this lever!?

View attachment 279738


Zahnrad thanks for the awesome ee picture!!

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The hand wheel and the fwd/reverse lever are standard equipment on a Sundstrand machine, 1939-1940.

rakort said:

I'm interested in this pix for a number of reasons. I don't think I noticed this before.....

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I pulled the picture from a 1944 brochure as it had the best shot of the older round dial gearing, didn't notice that it was of an older hydraulic drive machine. Here's a pic from the 1939 brochure:

I ordered a manual from Monarch to determine the parts I need and will post further when I have better information. I am an old Africa hand that has done many problem animal hunts (elephants, crocs, hippos) in Zimbabwe. I once stopped a 3 elephant charge from 50 yards with the help of my wingman. So I am not scared or intimidated by anything that walks on two legs and uses capital letters in posts on the internet. Enough said on the matter.

Hello Allfoden, welcome back.

I'll try to sort through your original post and maybe help you sort out the problems..

First: Is the 'Thread-Feed' knob you are referring to, the one on the headstock, roughly just below the tachometer? If it is this knob, it will have 'Left Thread/ Feed / Right Thread on the knob.
Is the 'hole' you looked through, the 6"x10" [roughly] cover on the top of the headstock?
If these questions above are both correct, Then I will explain part of what might be situation.

The left thread / Feed / Right Thread knob slides a selector left and right, you can see this by removing the cover and oil smash pan from the top of the headstock.. The sliding selector will move left and right when you pull the knob out [enough to clear the locking pin behind it] then rotate the knob.. BUT it likely will not engage the sliding selector, because the selector has only ONE location were it will fit the sector's 'tab' into the slot in the adjacent gear. You have to rotate the spindle by hand while turning the knob and it all pop into the slot. And if you move to the opposite direction, you have to turn the spindle by hand again usually 180* to engage the opposite direction.

If the above is not what you were describing.. I'll have to go out to the shop and look at my round dial to be sure of saying the correct things. BUT it might just be easier to wait until you get your manual from Monarch and match up the illustrations and names to your lathe.. Then we will both be speaking with the correct terms.

In one of the above replies to your original post, a photo was posted of the end of the headstock on an early round dial 10ee. It shows the exposed end gears on a typical round dial.. Are any of these gears the ones you believe you are missing? These end gears would be the most likely gears to be removed or missing.. Any other gears would be inside the headstock or inside the threading/feed gearbox.. and if a gear was removed, it often would require a replacement washer or spacer to keep the rest of the gears in correct alignment with each other..

I find the number of levers, and selections needed to set up the feed rod, or switch to threading with the lead screw to be a bit confusing I have to really look and make sure I have it right each time I change something..

And, just like the sliding selector in the headstock, that requires hand turning the chuck and spindle to get he dog and slot to align, the levers and gear matching in the threading and feeds gearbox also require hand turning the chuck and hold pressure on your selector knob or lever, and then gears will line up.

Also in one of the above posts, a PM member offered to assist with posting some photos.. It is NOT an intuitive process, a bit awkward.. But once you have posted a few images, it will be easy..

Let us know when your manual arrives, we can help sort out the confusion or the issues

Take care.
DualValve..

Alfoden, rereading your original post, I think it was pretty clear... the feed/right/left knob does actuate a gear that controls the direction of rotation of the threading output shaft from the headstock. As you rotate the feed/right/left knob, it moves a sliding fork that engages either forward or reverse (or disengages in the feed position). The threading output shaft is connected to the topmost gear in the gear chain on the end of the headstock. It should have either a 24 tooth or a 48 tooth gear.

What we need is a photo of the interior of the headstock: remove the top cover then remove the sheet metal plate with the oil strainer basket, and take some pictures that show the gearing.

Note that a common failure point inside 10EE headstocks is the shift fork that activates the fwd. reverse gear train. I have a spare if that is what you need.

thermite said:

Too many years ago now to dig records, but ISTR you were MY source for a used shifter fork I bought to replace the one on my '42 as was both BENT and thence badly worn?

Alfoden? That's how it works, here.

Each of us end up with the odd spare we turn out to NOT need.

Given we know how scarce they all can be, we just provide "safe-haven" from the scrap metal scavengers until some OTHER Pilgrim arrives who DOES need it.

My own "safe haven" includes an entire spare 10EE, total of four motors for two lathes, plus about a 2 foot by six foot tower of loose parts just a few weeks ago finally coalesced into a former "Pier One Imports" castered steel retail display rack the liquidators were selling-off nearby. A twin to that rack now has a full set of alloys, new Conti's already mounted, for the vintage Jaguar up off the floor. Turns out the concrete under my debris field was still there, all along!
Go figure!

Other members have more parts stashed, yet!
A spare motor you have? That's a golden way to start!

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Bill, familiar description. Three years ago I built a new auto shop, which got the vintage Porsche off the floor. Space below is now full of construction and cabinet-making lumber and tools. Now I am building a new garage, to fulfill a promise to my wife that I made 30 years ago that she would have a space to park her car inside. Somehow amid the ongoing construction, I have managed to overhaul the 80 year old lady in the shop, which required getting the Monarch parts back into a semblance of order. I think while the iron is hot, I will continue on and finish the 59 WIAD machine, which is in the center of the original garage. If I don’t, I’m in danger of forgetting which parts are spares and which parts go to the 59.

thermite said:

Not in MY plan that it become late Iron-Age "grave goods".

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Mine has been turning into yard art. Four 10EE headstock castings and a mfg. gearbox are decorating the agave garden. Better than taking them to the local metal recycler. But one bright spot is our friendly forum leader, Cal. Cal has agreed to take all the left over parts. We should all send our left over parts to Cal.

thermite said:

Friendly ^^^ masochistic ^^^ Forum Leader, yah mean?

If we doooo that?

We should also send him MONEY!

He can put it up at modest interest, hope it grows to cover the excavator fees to bury all that stuff with him, he lives long enough!



FWIW-not-much, a "central repository" could be virtual? As-in Cal keeping a database of whom has what -- instead of the physical Iron?

As mentioned, for the most part, I (we?) end up holding the parts that do NOT break or wear much. Demand for those is really rare and seldom, if not "never".

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Yes. The 10EE is like Oliver Wendell Holmes’ One Hoss Shay.
The Wonderful 'one-hoss-shay', by Oliver Wendell Holmes

I plan to stay out of the shop the day the 1940 10EE turns 100. I’ll only be 92.

thermite said:

All we may need to do is complete the "eye candy" project of shop-fabbing nice stainless and bronze replacements for all those b****y ZAMAK knobs and un-sightly oil level glass bezels.

ZAMAK begins life UGLY, lives life ugly, then eventually sort of ROTS.

Stainless and Bronze, less-so.

Perishable rubber mounts seen to periodically, everything else should last a whole lot longer than a mere HUNDRED years, just as other Monarch's have already done.

Can't let Henry Hendey have it ALL his Ironmongery-enduring way, can we?

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OR, find a 1939-1940 round dial. All the knobs and bezels are chromed iron and the dials aluminum. My personal favorite are the bronze dials on the WWII machines.

allfoden said:

I ordered a manual from Monarch to determine the parts I need and will post further when I have better information. I am an old Africa hand that has done many problem animal hunts (elephants, crocs, hippos) in Zimbabwe. I once stopped a 3 elephant charge from 50 yards with the help of my wingman. So I am not scared or intimidated by anything that walks on two legs and uses capital letters in posts on the internet. Enough said on the matter.

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Hi allfoden! I'm not an old Africa hand, but I did spend a year in Algeria in '95/'96 when a civil war was going on. I also grew up in Oakland, CA. Graduated Oakland High School. Rough place. We were the only school in the country with its own morgue. And hey, I gotta admit, this place was kinda intimidating to me!

There is a freakishly comprehensive knowledge base to be accessed here. And the members are always ready to offer solutions, suggestions, and in my case obscure parts!! Anything to keep these magnificent machines turning.

There is another board out there that advertises itself as "The friendly machinist forum." Implying that this is the non-friendly forum. That's a good board, but when the questions get complicated, they refer everyone to this place.

The bottom line - if you want to get your 10ee up and reliably running, this is where you want to be!!

Brass vs Aluminum vs 'mystery-metal'

I too like the brass dials on the WWII era lathes.
My 11/1941 lathe [ex-Eastman Kodak] has a white-metal threading dial. It is a bit difficult to read.

I purchased a 10ee for parts, ca. 04/1942 it has the brass threading dials. They are much easier to read.. If I ever have to get behind or remove the 'white-metal' dial on the '41 lathe, I'll put the brass dial on, just for looks and readability.

DualValve.