1941 Round Missing Gears
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    Default 1941 Round Missing Gears

    I have a new to me 10ee that apparently (really) is missing a gear set near the change gears on the lathe . The feed position on the thread/feed knob does nothing. Looking in the hole where the gear set should be I note a gear moving in and out with the thread/feed knob. Any idea where I can get the missing part? Lathe was a bargain at $600. Thanks

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    Quote Originally Posted by allfoden View Post
    I have a new to me 10ee that apparently (really) is missing a gear set near the change gears on the lathe . The feed position on the thread/feed knob does nothing. Looking in the hole where the gear set should be I note a gear moving in and out with the thread/feed knob. Any idea where I can get the missing part? Lathe was a bargain at $600. Thanks
    "Modern Medicine" notwithstanding, surely it cannot be repaired with "keyhole surgery" off the budgets of we Old Iron chickn's!



    You'll need to get the gearbox OFF and have better sight of what's afoot.

    Round-Dial is a bit tricky, at and back of the dial, but the gearbox at least comes off independently of the HS & spindle. Covered "Right here, on PM".

    "And then..." I have a round-Dial gearbox here from a part-out.

    I haven't looked EITHER to see if THAT one has all its innards. But at least it is off the lathe and in a box. Or several boxes. So "probably".

    Do yer research first.

    It might not even be a setting you'll ever use.

    It might as easily be a warning of GREATER problems.

    Save fotos. Lots more than WE need sight of, here. Or so we may hope! Use a 'selfie stick" to get ones down inside.

    Send your S/N off to Monarch Lathe by phone or email and order the manual for it.
    The parts in a rounddial are in illustrations and matching tables for the proper part number and the NAME for each that Monarch used.. and we (try to) follow.

    Start you a notebook if you have not already. Or add to what Monarch sells you. It comes "loose leaf" in a binder with room to add to.

    "Sounds as if" you are several THOUSAND dollars to the good, Day Zero start-point.

    Easier to make a plan to put that to best advantage when you/we know more.

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    Quote Originally Posted by allfoden View Post
    I have a new to me 10ee that apparently (really) is missing a gear set near the change gears on the lathe . The feed position on the thread/feed knob does nothing. Looking in the hole where the gear set should be I note a gear moving in and out with the thread/feed knob. Any idea where I can get the missing part? Lathe was a bargain at $600. Thanks
    With limited description, pictures will help tell the story a lot better. Also research of the millions of pictures out there will help. Ohh BTW what year / model lathe is this?

    The only thing I know for sure about this post is you got a great price on a 10ee

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    Don’t know how to post a photo

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    Quote Originally Posted by allfoden View Post
    Don’t know how to post a photo
    You can research that, "Right here, on PM".

    Learning such things for yourself as to how to make good use of the PM website will do you more long-term good than some among us walking yet-another through it for the hundredth time.

    10EE lore, BTW? Some of the "essentials" are in threads posted WELL over a dozen years ago.

    Wise to dig deep and wide.

    The knowledge "grows faster" as you build a framework to attach other bits of it to.

    In due course, that starts saving you time, avoids mistakes, saves you MONEY as well.

    Marvelous resource PM has become. But only if one USES it.

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    Mea culpa. Sorry I did not check the box “I hereby certify searching the site before posting a question”. Just a very old retired engineer trying to get by. Please remove my post. Thank you

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    Which of the gears below are you missing?


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    Quote Originally Posted by rke[pler View Post
    Which of the gears below are you missing?

    And if it is one of those in the picture, there is a very good chance I may have one in new condition...

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    Quote Originally Posted by allfoden View Post
    Mea culpa. Sorry I did not check the box “I hereby certify searching the site before posting a question”. Just a very old retired engineer trying to get by. Please remove my post. Thank you
    No fear. Some of us are just older-er and retireder-er, and wondering if we WILL "get by"!



    But I can't figure out - on either of my round-dials ('42 and '44) - what "hole" it is you are peeking into that seems to indicate there is a gear "missing" and other gears moving.

    Action of the < Left hand || Feed || Right hand > .. knob for the dog clutch shifter fork, HS upper cavity... doesn't seem to be what you are describing.

    Or is it?

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    Quote Originally Posted by thermite View Post
    No fear. Some of us are just older-er and retireder-er, and wondering if we WILL "get by"!



    But I can't figure out - on either of my round-dials ('42 and '44) - what "hole" it is you are peeking into that seems to indicate there is a gear "missing" and other gears moving.

    Action of the < Left hand || Feed || Right hand > .. knob for the dog clutch shifter fork, HS upper cavity... doesn't seem to be what you are describing.

    Or is it?
    Thermite, you scared him off! Next time be a bit nicer, if that’s within the realm of possible actions. At least wait until its clear what the problem is.

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    Quote Originally Posted by allfoden View Post
    Mea culpa. Sorry I did not check the box “I hereby certify searching the site before posting a question”. Just a very old retired engineer trying to get by. Please remove my post. Thank you
    No we will not remove your post.

    But we are happy to help. I'm still stoked on the $ you paid for the lathe and would love to see it.

    I'm not a retired engineer YET, but looking forward to that!

    If you can get digital pictures on your computer I can help to get them on here which will help us help you!

    There is enormous and a lots of people willing to help.

    Kind Regards
    Brian aka rakort

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    Quote Originally Posted by rimcanyon View Post
    Thermite, you scared him off! Next time be a bit nicer, if that’s within the realm of possible actions. At least wait until its clear what the problem is.
    The POINT, Dave is that we are helpless.

    We need him to tell us more. Or tell us "differently" so it can become "clear'.

    I'm not trying to "run him off". I've twice been out in the shop with a maglite messing with a 10EE Round-Dial trying to figure out what "hole" and what "missing" gear or where he got that impression.

    Not "armchair" work. Hands-on. And "No joy", so far. There may not even BE a "problem".

    Round-dial settings are not as "intuitive" as square-dial. Things do move as part of OTHER stuff taking up a different mode.

    And retired Engineers - even civilian ones - don't "scare". "Scare" gets used-up, our field, early-on!



    They just get impatient!

    Why should he be any different from the rest of us on THAT metric?


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    Quote Originally Posted by Zahnrad Kopf View Post
    And if it is one of those in the picture, there is a very good chance I may have one in new condition...

    I'm interested in this pix for a number of reasons. I don't think I noticed this before.....

    #1 this is a super early RD

    #2 It has double v belt for the main drive....EARLY

    ee3.jpg

    #3 Apparently a tail stock hand wheel on the speed control!

    ee2.jpg

    #4 what the hell is this lever!?

    ee1.jpg


    Zahnrad thanks for the awesome ee picture!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by rakort View Post
    I'm interested in this pix for a number of reasons. I don't think I noticed this before.....

    #1 this is a super early RD

    #2 It has double v belt for the main drive....EARLY

    ee3.jpg

    #3 Apparently a tail stock hand wheel on the speed control!

    ee2.jpg

    #4 what the hell is this lever!?

    ee1.jpg


    Zahnrad thanks for the awesome ee picture!!
    The hand wheel and the fwd/reverse lever are standard equipment on a Sundstrand machine, 1939-1940.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rakort View Post
    I'm interested in this pix for a number of reasons. I don't think I noticed this before.....
    I pulled the picture from a 1944 brochure as it had the best shot of the older round dial gearing, didn't notice that it was of an older hydraulic drive machine. Here's a pic from the 1939 brochure:


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    I ordered a manual from Monarch to determine the parts I need and will post further when I have better information. I am an old Africa hand that has done many problem animal hunts (elephants, crocs, hippos) in Zimbabwe. I once stopped a 3 elephant charge from 50 yards with the help of my wingman. So I am not scared or intimidated by anything that walks on two legs and uses capital letters in posts on the internet. Enough said on the matter.

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    Quote Originally Posted by allfoden View Post
    I ordered a manual from Monarch to determine the parts I need and will post further when I have better information.
    That really helps. The illustrations are murky. Some of the names are not what we might expect as convention. It can still take some "detective work" to be assured the part is "the one".

    But at least with all of us using the same name and part number Monarch used it saves a great deal of guessing and mis-communication.

    I do not have either of my round-dial ('42 brass, '44 white) feed gearbox off, but the "parted out" one with its gearbox casting and its bits in a FRB box or three was also a "brass" round-dial close in age to your one. That one I can dig thru parts readily.

    There will be others who have an item or three spare, as well.

    As I even have an intact gearcase casting, it is probably a safe bet that between and among enough of us, most anything that actually HAS gone amiss in your one - including the possibility a previous minder deliberately removed one or more gears to prevent running something as had been broken - CAN be sorted in due course.

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    Hello Allfoden, welcome back.

    I'll try to sort through your original post and maybe help you sort out the problems..

    First: Is the 'Thread-Feed' knob you are referring to, the one on the headstock, roughly just below the tachometer? If it is this knob, it will have 'Left Thread/ Feed / Right Thread on the knob.
    Is the 'hole' you looked through, the 6"x10" [roughly] cover on the top of the headstock?
    If these questions above are both correct, Then I will explain part of what might be situation.

    The left thread / Feed / Right Thread knob slides a selector left and right, you can see this by removing the cover and oil smash pan from the top of the headstock.. The sliding selector will move left and right when you pull the knob out [enough to clear the locking pin behind it] then rotate the knob.. BUT it likely will not engage the sliding selector, because the selector has only ONE location were it will fit the sector's 'tab' into the slot in the adjacent gear. You have to rotate the spindle by hand while turning the knob and it all pop into the slot. And if you move to the opposite direction, you have to turn the spindle by hand again usually 180* to engage the opposite direction.

    If the above is not what you were describing.. I'll have to go out to the shop and look at my round dial to be sure of saying the correct things. BUT it might just be easier to wait until you get your manual from Monarch and match up the illustrations and names to your lathe.. Then we will both be speaking with the correct terms.

    In one of the above replies to your original post, a photo was posted of the end of the headstock on an early round dial 10ee. It shows the exposed end gears on a typical round dial.. Are any of these gears the ones you believe you are missing? These end gears would be the most likely gears to be removed or missing.. Any other gears would be inside the headstock or inside the threading/feed gearbox.. and if a gear was removed, it often would require a replacement washer or spacer to keep the rest of the gears in correct alignment with each other..

    I find the number of levers, and selections needed to set up the feed rod, or switch to threading with the lead screw to be a bit confusing I have to really look and make sure I have it right each time I change something..

    And, just like the sliding selector in the headstock, that requires hand turning the chuck and spindle to get he dog and slot to align, the levers and gear matching in the threading and feeds gearbox also require hand turning the chuck and hold pressure on your selector knob or lever, and then gears will line up.

    Also in one of the above posts, a PM member offered to assist with posting some photos.. It is NOT an intuitive process, a bit awkward.. But once you have posted a few images, it will be easy..

    Let us know when your manual arrives, we can help sort out the confusion or the issues

    Take care.
    DualValve..

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    Alfoden, rereading your original post, I think it was pretty clear... the feed/right/left knob does actuate a gear that controls the direction of rotation of the threading output shaft from the headstock. As you rotate the feed/right/left knob, it moves a sliding fork that engages either forward or reverse (or disengages in the feed position). The threading output shaft is connected to the topmost gear in the gear chain on the end of the headstock. It should have either a 24 tooth or a 48 tooth gear.

    What we need is a photo of the interior of the headstock: remove the top cover then remove the sheet metal plate with the oil strainer basket, and take some pictures that show the gearing.

    Note that a common failure point inside 10EE headstocks is the shift fork that activates the fwd. reverse gear train. I have a spare if that is what you need.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rimcanyon View Post
    Alfoden, rereading your original post, I think it was pretty clear... the feed/right/left knob does actuate a gear that controls the direction of rotation of the threading output shaft from the headstock. As you rotate the feed/right/left knob, it moves a sliding fork that engages either forward or reverse (or disengages in the feed position). The threading output shaft is connected to the topmost gear in the gear chain on the end of the headstock. It should have either a 24 tooth or a 48 tooth gear.

    What we need is a photo of the interior of the headstock: remove the top cover then remove the sheet metal plate with the oil strainer basket, and take some pictures that show the gearing.

    Note that a common failure point inside 10EE headstocks is the shift fork that activates the fwd. reverse gear train. I have a spare if that is what you need.
    Too many years ago now to dig records, but ISTR you were MY source for a used shifter fork I bought to replace the one on my '42 as was both BENT and thence badly worn?

    Alfoden? That's how it works, here.

    Each of us end up with the odd spare we turn out to NOT need.

    Given we know how scarce they all can be, we just provide "safe-haven" from the scrap metal scavengers until some OTHER Pilgrim arrives who DOES need it.

    My own "safe haven" includes an entire spare 10EE, total of four motors for two lathes, plus about a 2 foot by six foot tower of loose parts just a few weeks ago finally coalesced into a former "Pier One Imports" castered steel retail display rack the liquidators were selling-off nearby. A twin to that rack now has a full set of alloys, new Conti's already mounted, for the vintage Jaguar up off the floor. Turns out the concrete under my debris field was still there, all along!
    Go figure!

    Other members have more parts stashed, yet!
    A spare motor you have? That's a golden way to start!



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