1942 10EE Electrical Modification
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  1. #1
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    Default 1942 10EE Electrical Modification

    This 1942 10EE is about a two-hour drive from me, and I'm wondering what this modification is doing. Exciter?

    monarch-1942-10ee-electrical-mod.jpg

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    Uhh, dunno, does one have to walk around the machine to change speeds?

    Seems inconvenient

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    Not enough power in that box for the spindle motor but it could be the exciter supply if the exciter on the MG failed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Briney Eye View Post
    This 1942 10EE is about a two-hour drive from me, and I'm wondering what this modification is doing. Exciter?

    monarch-1942-10ee-electrical-mod.jpg
    I agree with labeeman and I'm 99% sure that this is a replacement for a failed exciter on a motor/generator 10EE. The transformer in the upper left probably steps the incoming AC sufficiently that it can be rectified to produce the 115 Volts DC that the system need to replace the output of the exciter. The variable transformer in the upper right is used to adjust the output of the step-up transformer so that the output voltage is correct. The meter lets you easily adjust the variable transformer which is a one-time thing; there's no need for a permanently installed meter, but maybe they had one laying around. The row of square fins in the bottom of the cabinet is a selenium rectifier, which is what converts the AC from the step-up transformer and the variable transformer into DC. Once the variable transformer had been adjusted to produce the correct output voltage it shouldn't need to be adjusted again.

    Whoever built this put a lot of time and expense into the project and I think that gives you an indication of the type of care that the machine has had. In fact, this is probably the most elaborate exciter replacement that we've seen here. The typical exciter replacement is just a bridge rectifier that puts out about 90 VDC, which is enough to make a 10EE work well enough for most applications.

    If you wind up buying the machine, you should replace the selenium rectifier with a modern silicon rectifier. When selenium rectifiers fail, they release a toxic cloud that is most unpleasant, by all accounts, and can be hazardous to your health if you don't evacuate until the cloud dissipates.

    Cal

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    Quote Originally Posted by labeeman View Post
    Not enough power in that box for the spindle motor but it could be the exciter supply if the exciter on the MG failed.
    Not so sure.. The Field needs less than 2A. This is more than overkill for that.

    It "could be" watcha might call an "attempt" to run the Armature..



    Which will, after all, "make turns" off an ignorant 12V lawmower or motorcar battery.

    Just not "good turns" as-in "useful". Well.. two in series are handy for stoning a commutator...

    More fotos, more of the REST of it needed for a more certain "SWAG" at it.

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    It's a moot point now. This and a 1956 10EE showed up on Craigslist in Tucumcari, New Mexico (a couple of hours east of me) for $2500 each.

    They were both sold within 24 hours.

    If I hadn't put money down today to start putting up a shop building next to the house I might have made a play for one myself. Que sera.

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    I've gotta wonder how a 10EE landed in Tucumcari. Maybe through Bentley's in Amarillo?

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    The last 10ee to come up in Albuquerque was shipped to Los Alamos in 1944, and you know what it must have been doing.

    I retired from Sandia Labs last year, and we had literal acres of machine shop, but I don't recall any 10ee's. They must have had them, but I didn't know enough to notice back then. The shop eventually priced itself out of existence a few years before I retired, and I don't know what happened to all the machines. Government agencies would have had first crack at them, but anything unclaimed would have gone up for auction.

    All of that long-windedness aside, I don't think the two in Tucumcari came from Sandia. I wasn't able to communicate with the seller before they were gone, though.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Briney Eye View Post
    I retired from Sandia Labs last year, and we had literal acres of machine shop, but I don't recall any 10ee's. They must have had them, but I didn't know enough to notice back then. The shop eventually priced itself out of existence a few years before I retired, and I don't know what happened to all the machines. Government agencies would have had first crack at them, but anything unclaimed would have gone up for auction.
    I retired from Sandia a few years ago as a contractor (worked for 9954 subbed to 5528 and others). Walked daily past the big old machining building west across from the primary standards building and wondered what it might have been like back when it was loaded with machinery. I saw some of that machinery being auctioned at Bentley's over the years, one time there were a dozen 10EEs lined up for sale. The Hardinge UM mill in my shop came from LANL and a fair amount of other stuff but my 10EE came from Rockford IL.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rke[pler View Post
    I retired from Sandia a few years ago as a contractor (worked for 9954 subbed to 5528 and others). Walked daily past the big old machining building west across from the primary standards building and wondered what it might have been like back when it was loaded with machinery. I saw some of that machinery being auctioned at Bentley's over the years, one time there were a dozen 10EEs lined up for sale. The Hardinge UM mill in my shop came from LANL and a fair amount of other stuff but my 10EE came from Rockford IL.
    When I started in 1981 the Machine Shop was a thing to behold. I think the Inspection room must have been 8 or 10,000 square feet, all glassed in, everybody in lab coats. The Tool Crib was probably around 2000 square feet. They had it all, too. From the Miniature Shop where they could make microscopic components up to near Oil Patch size lathes, and a turntable I saw them turning a nose cone on one time. It was probably the Test Ban (and the Internet) that put them under. Without lots of new high-dollar programs the overhead just killed them. The last time I was there putting in a job I overheard a Volcanically Pissed Off department manager disputing a charge with one of the shop Leads, along the lines of "How the Hell can this little job have possibly cost $25k?!!" Everybody just started sending out their jobs, Management wasn't able to renegotiate the union contract, and poof! they were gone.

    -Jon

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    “10EE came from Rockford IL.”

    I wonder if your 10EE was from Barber Colman and it was used to build my #3 hobber. But then, decades before Rockford ranked highest in the country on the misery index, it was a hugely successful industrial city with many companies. Somebody actually wrote a history of Rockford, which I bought and read after getting my gear machine.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Briney Eye View Post
    When I started in 1981 the Machine Shop was a thing to behold. I think the Inspection room must have been 8 or 10,000 square feet, all glassed in, everybody in lab coats. The Tool Crib was probably around 2000 square feet. They had it all, too. From the Miniature Shop where they could make microscopic components up to near Oil Patch size lathes, and a turntable I saw them turning a nose cone on one time. It was probably the Test Ban (and the Internet) that put them under. Without lots of new high-dollar programs the overhead just killed them. The last time I was there putting in a job I overheard a Volcanically Pissed Off department manager disputing a charge with one of the shop Leads, along the lines of "How the Hell can this little job have possibly cost $25k?!!" Everybody just started sending out their jobs, Management wasn't able to renegotiate the union contract, and poof! they were gone.

    -Jon
    I was there around then on a Family Day tour (every 5 years) and recall hearing one of the inspection folks talking about mapping the big surface plate and having to shut the parking lot so it was stable enough for the mapping to be finished. I recall the plate to be 40x20x5 - feet. Friends who were working there (including some from the shop) thought the DOE Safety "Tiger" Teams killed a lot of it, I know they poisoned the environment for my dad who left mostly as a result of their rampage through area 1.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bll230 View Post
    “10EE came from Rockford IL.”

    I wonder if your 10EE was from Barber Colman and it was used to build my #3 hobber. But then, decades before Rockford ranked highest in the country on the misery index, it was a hugely successful industrial city with many companies. Somebody actually wrote a history of Rockford, which I bought and read after getting my gear machine.
    Nope, it came from Ingersoll Milling. A fellow who worked there saved it from being tipped into a recycle dumpster and stored it in his unattached garage. I rescued it from there and spent a fair amount of time restoring it. Here's a shot of it when it landed in my shop:



    The nice thing was that it was all there. The bad thing was that everything had been dicked with, particularly the drive. That took most of a year to figure out and straighten all the problems out. But I have the company paper on the lathe including all the parts and such bought for it over it's life, kind of neat.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rke[pler View Post
    Friends who were working there (including some from the shop) thought the DOE Safety "Tiger" Teams killed a lot of it, I know they poisoned the environment for my dad who left mostly as a result of their rampage through area 1.
    I thought Admiral Watkins was a real REMF. At one time I was told that Employee Safety and Health was sucking up 15% of the Lab's total budget. I don't know what the number is lately, but it sucks up a lot of resources, and definitely was a factor in my deciding to retire. I got stuck with standing up a small electronics lab, and it was such a PITA that it only took a couple of bad days to give me the final push.

    -Jon


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