1942 10ee Sight unseen

mut8dsc · Feb 26, 2020

This was a Facebook Marketplace score. There was one picture that did not show much. They advertised it as a "Chucker lathe" as it had the collet chuck installed. But the owner verified it was a 10ee and not a 10ec. So I took a chance. 4 hour drive to pick it up.

It came with:

8" 3 jaw chuck
Hardinge 2J collet chuck and about 30 collets
Steady Rest
Taper attachment
11" faceplate
Tailstock (removed for transport)
Quick change tool post

Attached are some pictures. I'm sure you good folks will assist with getting it up and running. It has all the covers, not much backlash. Just needs a good scrubbing and some electrical attention. The taper attachment needs the bed clamp.

I gave $1,200 for it. As the owner was loading it up, he told me that after I paid (Paypal an hour after it was posted) he had another offer for $2,400!! Machinists are good people to honor that original deal. Granted, the $2,400 guy may have just been a poser, but still...

Zap921 · Feb 26, 2020

Congrats!! Enjoy your 10ee, which I'm sure you will.

Cal Haines · Feb 26, 2020

Nice score! You would probably pay almost that much just for the tooling.

The speed control knob is definitely not stock.

I would like to see pictures of the drive system. Including the motor under the headstock, inside the control box near the spindle motor and views of the area under the chip pan (looking in from front and tailstock cover).

What's the serial number and build date? Did you get a manual and wiring diagram?

Cal

rimcanyon · Feb 26, 2020

Nice score. May be a jewel in the rough, once you get it cleaned up. Nice that it still has the 2J collet chuck - that gets more use than any other work holding device on my lathe.

There is something strange on the leadscrew at the tailstock end. Maybe a hand wheel to rotate it? can't tell.

The collet rack might be an original accessory. Does it have a column to mount it to the lathe? Check out some of the old Monarch catalogs from the 40's that show original accessories. Russ may have a scan of a picture like that.

mut8dsc · Feb 26, 2020

thermite said:
Nah. We are just HEAVILY into inspiring "guilt trips".

Seriously, I have easily $1,200 in a 2J Sjogren with full collet set, Monarch OEM faceplate, OEM steady rest, MY choice as to tool posts, and a "real" chuck (mine have all FOUR jaws!).

So in a manner of speaking, you got the "White Round-Dial" MG-era 10EE itself for "free".

Guess you could BBQ a goat to celebrate?

PM-PM or "send email to" member "vettebob", see if he has any of his newly-made TA cast aluminium bed clamps and machined steel rod & nut "clones" left.

Nice looking, and a perfect drop-on fit if you buy as machined and finished.

Order yer manual from Monarch by S/N, and all-hands will be using the same P/N and sometimes odd names for any parts you need assistance with.

Mr. Thermite. i like your style. I don't know if i'm going to do any taper turning, but will look up Mr. vettebob for a clamp. Or mill one out. Doesn't look to be too complicated. A cast one would be nice though. Thanks!

mut8dsc · Feb 26, 2020

rimcanyon said:
Nice score. May be a jewel in the rough, once you get it cleaned up. Nice that it still has the 2J collet chuck - that gets more use than any other work holding device on my lathe.

There is something strange on the leadscrew at the tailstock end. Maybe a hand wheel to rotate it? can't tell.

The collet rack might be an original accessory. Does it have a column to mount it to the lathe? Check out some of the old Monarch catalogs from the 40's that show original accessories. Russ may have a scan of a picture like that.

I'll take a better picture of that tailstock end. It looks like just a plug. it doesn't rotate.

The collet rack has two small pins sticking out of one side. It's really heavy though. I don't think those pins will hold it up.

Also, does anyone know what this thing is?

mut8dsc · Feb 26, 2020

Cal Haines said:
Nice score! You would probably pay almost that much just for the tooling.

The speed control knob is definitely not stock.

I would like to see pictures of the drive system. Including the motor under the headstock, inside the control box near the spindle motor and views of the area under the chip pan (looking in from front and tailstock cover).

What's the serial number and build date? Did you get a manual and wiring diagram?

Cal

I still need to unload it off the trailer. it's really heavy. Here are some pictures of the motor and drive. I'll remove some more covers and take more pictures.

The build date is 1-1942. i know the s/n is stamped somewhere, but not sure where.

Thanks Cal!

Cal Haines · Feb 26, 2020

mut8dsc said:
I still need to unload it off the trailer. it's really heavy. Here are some pictures of the motor and drive. I'll remove some more covers and take more pictures.

The build date is 1-1942. i know the s/n is stamped somewhere, but not sure where.

Thanks Cal!
...

The serial number is "MFGR'S NO." on the build plate:
View attachment 280130
I can't make it out, but it should match the number on the brass plate on the DC Control Panel cover, which looks to be 13066 or 13068. So far, everything looks to be vintage. The serial number is also stamped on the right end of the ways, near the front Vee way. Have a look at the bottom of the steady rest and the backs of chucks. If you find the serial number stamped there, those pieces of tooling are original to the machine.

The motor/generator (MG) should be in the cavity under the chip pan and tailstock.

Cal

rimcanyon · Feb 27, 2020

mut8dsc said:
I'll take a better picture of that tailstock end. It looks like just a plug. it doesn't rotate.

The collet rack has two small pins sticking out of one side. It's really heavy though. I don't think those pins will hold it up.

Also, does anyone know what this thing is?

View attachment 280120

Take a look at the fitting that is attached to the base cabinet at the tailstock end, above the door for the MG. I think that fitting originally supported the collet rack, and this is an original accessory. I have no idea what the bottom of the rack looks like, a photo would help.

The accessory in the photo is a puzzle. The short lead screw reminds me of the parts used by the hydraulic tracer lathes, but I haven’t seen one like this.

Cal Haines · Feb 27, 2020

thermite said:
What is not adding up, though, is that completion date and light-metal dial.

That's a lower S/N - assigned at time of order, as well as an earlier completion date than my older of two, ordered & S/N assigned December '41, and shipped 9-42 with the "brass" round-dial still standard.

Could be some repair/refurb was already done, and long years ago?

Wonder if it has an inline exciter or piggyback?

Or "neither".

I don't think you can tell anything from the build plates and dials. I can show you examples on either side, by both serial number and build date, with about any combination of plates and dials that you want. White metal seems to be the rule, but from mid-1942 to mid-1943 brass dominates. I also have examples of earlier plates that are brass-plated, where the brass has worn away and the white metal is showing through. During WWII, it probably depended on which supplier could supply them and it doesn't appear that they cared what they were made of.

Cal

mut8dsc · Feb 27, 2020

rimcanyon said:
Take a look at the fitting that is attached to the base cabinet at the tailstock end, above the door for the MG. I think that fitting originally supported the collet rack, and this an original accessory. I have no idea what the bottom of the rack looks like, a photo would help.

Hi Rimcanyon!

You are correct about the fitting. It's the other half of the collet tray support. There is a heavy load on that support. I'm not sure if a braze will hold. Maybe some pins and then a braze.

mut8dsc · Feb 27, 2020

Here are the numbers i found:

Punched into the rail - Lot No. EE 13068

On the plate below the Data plate:

149101

mut8dsc · Feb 27, 2020

Pictures of the motor, exciter, etc.

mut8dsc · Feb 27, 2020

Pictures of the move:

I picked it with my Ex-cel engine hoist, and got the wife to drive the trailer out from under it. A pallet jack moves it around very easily. That Ex-cel is strong. The owner had a HF hoist and told me he could only pick up one end.

mut8dsc · Feb 27, 2020

thermite said:
Not a complicated item. Mill one from steel rather than CI.

Good idea! Easier than a repair. This machine has a lot of weird things going on with it. No point in trying to keep it all original.

mut8dsc · Feb 27, 2020

thermite said:
Two things I have not seen before - perhaps others have:

UNDER driven exciter. I've only seen them with pulleys @ 1:1 or so they appear to be.

TRIPLE vee-belts, motor to spindle.

Maybe a 3600 rpm motor vs. 1725?

Cal Haines · Feb 28, 2020

thermite said:
mut8dsc said:

Pictures of the motor, exciter, etc.

View attachment 280207...View attachment 280211...

Click to expand...

Two things I have not seen before - perhaps others have:

UNDER driven exciter. I've only seen them with pulleys @ 1:1 or so they appear to be.

TRIPLE vee-belts, motor to spindle.

The first batch of piggyback exciter 10EEs, circa 1941, had the exciter with the larger pulley, as shown.

The triple V-belt setup doesn't look vintage to me; perhaps an end-user modification. The only other example of a triple belt drive that I have is on an inline-exciter machine; unknown if it was original.

Cal

DualValve · Feb 28, 2020

Congratulations on a great find and purchase.
I had to chuckle at the use of a motor lift to remove the lathe from the trailer.. That motor lift must have been designed for use in a garage working on Semi Trucks.. Your lathe weighs more than 3200#, Most more than 3500 with a Taper attachment.
There are not many 'engines' that you would use a hydraulic cherry picker on instead of an overhead hoist.

Regarding your belt pulley size for your MG and exciter.. My 11-1941 10ee, Serial # 11855 has the large pulley'd exciter.

I believe the 3-belt drive belts is an after-production modification. I've only seen one other 3-belt drive.

Did you find out from the seller what voltage the MG is set up for? I not open up the front access door, that will expose the motor end of the MG unit.. then remove the sheep metal cover off of the junction box.. show a nice photo of the lower connections on the vertical connections bar. This will show what the motor is currently wired for .

DualValve

mut8dsc · Feb 28, 2020

I will take a picture of the electrical panel tomorrow. The owner never ran the lathe, but indicated that it was in use when he bought the shop.

That engine hoist was a Craigslist find. It’s an American made Ex-cel that I picked up for $30. I break it down after each pick. I have to use a dolly to move the boom. It’s very stout. I had it on the second peg - supposedly good for 1 1/2 tons. It handled that lathe with no problem. I took off the tailstock and front cover, so that helped a little.

dinotom · Feb 29, 2020

mut8dsc said:
That engine hoist was a Craigslist find. It’s an American made Ex-cel that I picked up for $30. I break it down after each pick. I have to use a dolly to move the boom. It’s very stout. I had it on the second peg - supposedly good for 1 1/2 tons. It handled that lathe with no problem. I took off the tailstock and front cover, so that helped a little.

I had mine hanging (from the support areas shown in the original manual for lifting) for nearly three hours on a Pittsburgh 2 ton engine hoist from Harbor Freight using a mile marker 6000lb strap. I've had it for years and it works great. As I had the apron and saddle off, it probably was just under 3000lbs.

1942 10ee Sight unseen

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