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1953 13EE Monarch FS...

1000EE-Monarch

Aluminum
Joined
Dec 10, 2010
Location
CA Bay Area
Thinking of selling one of the two Mythical Beasts (lol) from our collection....

1953 Monarch 13EE 15.5" x 54" toolroom lathe. 25 - 2000 RPM in 4 gear ranges, shifted electrically. Rapids in Z and X.

Had a Ward-Leonard (Motor Generator) drive originally, but we swapped in a Baldor SCR Line-Regen drive instead. Original 20HP DC motor in place, and the modern Baldor 4-quadrant drive feels (and sounds) a lot like an 80's Monarch SCR Line-Regen drive. Gear shifting works with original switchgear.

Ways have no wear, some very localized pitting. CSS not hooked up currently but would not be difficult to implement with the modern drive.

$7500, have forklift to load.

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Have a great Thanksgiving !!

Thanks,
Alex.
 

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Thinking of selling one of the two Mythical Beasts (lol) from our collection....

1953 Monarch 13EE 15.5" x 54" toolroom lathe. 25 - 2000 RPM in 4 gear ranges, shifted electrically. Rapids in Z and X.

Had a Ward-Leonard (Motor Generator) drive originally, but we swapped in a Baldor SCR Line-Regen drive instead. Original 20HP DC motor in place, and the modern Baldor 4-quadrant drive feels (and sounds) a lot like an 80's Monarch SCR Line-Regen drive. Gear shifting works with original switchgear.

Ways have no wear, some very localized pitting. CSS not hooked up currently but would not be difficult to implement with the modern drive.

$7500, have forklift to load.

View attachment 271277
View attachment 271278


Have a great Thanksgiving !!

Thanks,
Alex.

How does the new drive work? Is the auto brake still working?
 
How does the new drive work? Is the auto brake still working?

The new drive is a 4-Quardant SCR Line-regen drive. Decelerating is done by returning power into the grid. The 13EE has a shunt wound motor, and reversing rotation direction of the motor only needs the reversal of the armature voltage. When decelerating (torque reversal), voltage is the "normal way" but current is "reversed" and pushed back into the utility grid though the SCR drive. When running in reverse rotation direction, the voltage to the armature is reversed.

Kinda like this but using SCRs:
Four Quadrant Operation | Kollmorgen
 
Honest, embarrassing question:
How intimidating is one of these?
I’ve always considered them to be the pinnacle of Monarch. I also imagine them to be far more difficult/intimidating to refurbish than the 10EE and Series 60 that I have made useable.
 
Did you see the 1000EE on Craigslist?
I believe it is in Eugene Oregon?

Yep, I did... And sending him an E-mail did not result in a reply. No phone number in the ad...

Are we all in agreement that 13EE is MG and 1000EE is a Tube machine? And MG is early 50's and tube late 50's? I'm still trying to figure it out after 20 years of obsessive collecting and having had three of these things....

But yeah, the OR machine is MG and a 13EE.
 
Definitely wouldn't want to restore it, just refurbish what is needed & use it. Refurbishing the Series 60 took me over two years, and that was with a complete parts lathe. The 10EE took a bit less time, being in better shape. Of course took plenty of bearings, seals, metering units, stripping, machining, etc., not to mention a lifesaving gear still available from Monarch.

I would imagine that for this lathe, parts are FAR more difficult to find, and I fear trying to supply enough 3 phase power. I have only a 100A panel at the shop, with my cobbled RPC running on a 50A breaker.
 
If this lathe was not 2700 miles away, I'd be all over it..
I see so many 10ee's with 'fantasy' pricing. and this one is reasonable, in good condition, and ready to go.

Too many miles.. even if I had floor space for it..

DualValve.

They tend to multiply:
 
>> Honest, embarrassing question: How intimidating is one of these?
>> I’ve always considered them to be the pinnacle of Monarch. I also imagine them to be far more difficult/intimidating to refurbish
>> than the 10EE and Series 60 that I have made useable.

Well, depends on how extensive of a refurbishment you have in mind. You could use it as it sits (it does run, shift gears, rapids work, etc.). It's pretty clean and all the important stuff works. And fix stuff up a bit at a time. Removing the motor generator and going to a modern drive did simplify the electricals quite a bit. Yes, a full restoration would be like a Series 60 except a bit more to do.

>> Modern 3-Phase (only) DC Drives are less work by far to retrofit than Single-Phase DC Drives and there are far more still-active makers. Also much smoother

This has a 3-phase only drive. The drive will run on 480 or 240V input.

>> would imagine that for this lathe, parts are FAR more difficult to find, and I fear trying to supply enough 3 phase power.
>> I have only a 100A panel at the shop, with my cobbled RPC running on a 50A breaker.

A 15 or 20HP rotary phase converter should do the trick...

>> If this lathe was not 2700 miles away, I'd be all over it..
>> I see so many 10ee's with 'fantasy' pricing. and this one is reasonable, in good condition, and ready to go.

I could research shipping quotes... Thanks for the kind words re. pricing, I thought $7500 is fair for what it is... I hate seeing it go, but have way too many toys at the moment.... a pair of 13/1000EE's on top of all the 10EE's is a bit much :-). I might put up for sale some SIP MP-3K's as well...
 
Alex — are you selling both your 13EE’s or just one? Because it would be a shame for you to sell both of your 13EE. They are the pride of your collection!!
 
>> Alex — are you selling both your 13EE’s or just one?

Just this one. The other one is a little newer, has the tube drive, but is dirtier/more beat up/needs more work to run. I'm thinking of doing a complete restoration on that one someday.
 
>> THIS.. has been "question enough" it is actually on my RTWL ('Round Tuit Wish List) to TEST.
....
>> My concern, given the manner in which DC Drive not only switch, but also monitor themselves, is whether, and to what extent,
>> if-even the "generated" leg off an RPC degrades their performance, stability, or capability to regulate well vs all three legs
>> of the same quality. Or near-as-dammit, the Phase-Perfect.

Good question and valid concern. If running the SCR drive off a rotary phase converter, I would connect the incoming 1 phase to the legs that power the logic of the drive, to keep the power going there more consistent. Also, probably a good idea to tune the accel and decel rates conservatively to limit peak loading. On decel, the energy is returned back to the grid (phase converter in this case), so the generated leg voltage would go up and the phase converter motor would try to speed up, limited by the 60hz mains which it would be backfeeding. I have yet to try it.... On the bright side, the drive we put in this lathe is extremely oversized, it's rated at 50hp and 500V or so (have to double check), and SCR drives are pretty tough.

>> Have you BEEN running a 3-Phase-only DC Drive off an RPC already? And if so, am I being overly pessimistic?

I have not, been using "real" three phase. I could scare up an idler motor and simulate operation off a phase converter if there's enough interest... I know a guy that's running a large Mori Seiki CNC lathe with an SCR DC drive off a phase converter and so far it's been OK. But yeah, if the intent is to run it off single phase with a RPC, probably a good idea to test drive it on that kind of setup see how she does.
 
Alex, thanks for the answers!
I need to work that I/M gearbox, rebuilt 10EE headstock, NOS compound, etc., into this deal somehow...
:eek::scratchchin:

Sounds like it would be in use quicker than my Series 60 took. I'm mostly intent on refurbishing the bijur pumps, changing metering units & major cleaning/flushing. I have a spare taper (not that yours needs it) and your 13EE taper is visually in MUCH cleaner/better/complete shape than mine was...
 
>> I need to work that I/M gearbox, rebuilt 10EE headstock, NOS compound, etc., into this deal somehow...

Hmmm... don't tempt me lol.

>> I have a spare taper (not that yours needs it) and your 13EE taper is visually in MUCH cleaner/better/complete shape than mine was...

This one will need the bed clamp for the taper att.
 
>> So even without a 50 HP, there'd still be about 100% or better reserve.

Here's the data plate of the drive. Obviously it's current and voltage limited in the parameters to match the motor specs but it does has a wide operating range :-)

DriveDataPlate.jpg

>> Now. tachogenerator control, it should be stable as Gibralter.

That would be a fun upgrade, the drive has an input for that.
 
>> Needs a complete Field Regulator functionality as well.

This has a field control with a fair number of parameters to tweak it's behavior. And I do have the manual of the drive.

Here's a video of some gear shifting:

YouTube
 








 
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