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1956 Monarch 10EE, serial # 41672

rpseguin

Stainless
Joined
Jun 28, 2006
Location
Napa, CA
Since I was having the Lodge & Shipley trucked out from Monarch Lathes, I asked Harry if they had any affordable 10EEs, and this is what came out of that.

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The ways were reground in 2011
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D&L reground my Bridgeport tables, saddles and knees, and did excellent work. That lathe did some travelling, from Redwood City, to Sidney and then back to California. Does it have a motor generator, WIAD or something else?
 
D&L reground my Bridgeport tables, saddles and knees, and did excellent work. That lathe did some travelling, from Redwood City, to Sidney and then back to California. Does it have a motor generator, WIAD or something else?

Yeah, I thought that was funny that it was so close before its round trip journey. :-)
It was previously owned by Litton Electron Devices.

I’m thinking since it’s 1956, it’s probably works in the drawer.
I haven’t opened it up yet.
 
No need to open.

TS end hatch is blank for MG, Has fan grilles for WiAd.

Thanks!
Looks like WiAd then:

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Modulars have big, wide door in front, electrical switches in a line above.

Then again, if a conversion?

Most "deep pockets" major contractor/ DoD DC Drive modifications seem to show up on WiaD, (it was the least-powerful as-built) then Module drive (the most powerful, as-built, and also the newest, hence easier to justify the extra spend).

I’ll open it up over the next few days and take some pics.
I bought it knowing it would be a project, but shouldn’t be too much trouble to get it running.
The ways look like they are in very good condition. Not much backlash in the cross-slide or compound.
The tailstock definitely has some backlash, but shouldn’t be too hard to address that either.
 
The lathe came with a Royal 5C lever collet closer, but no 5C taper adapter for the spindle nose and the adjustable linkage rod that connects to the lathe isn’t there either.

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Anyone have a drawings/measurements for the length on the adjustable link rod?
I’ll try calling Royal tomorrow
 
Other things I’ll be looking for:

-5C spindle nose taper adapter for the Royal lever collet closer
-6 jaw chuck with reversible top jaws
-steadyrest
-4 jaw chuck (with reversible top jaws)
 
Well it was only two knobs ... and you would also know if it was still "Hollow State" had been modified to Scissio solid-state drop-ins for the gas bottles, had been modified to a third-party DC Drive, or even to a VFD rig?

Oy! The SUSPENSE!

I can sleep.

Can you?

:)


LOL!
I’ll get to it today.
Gotta take my rigger to kindergarten first and do some day job things.
 
"Looks like.." a shop-fabbed plate the anchorage for the lever-closer are mounted to? If so, you may have to calculate / dummy-up and fab your own linkage?

Ooooops!
I looked down on the floor where I had put the 10EE stuff from the truck and found the linkage bar.
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The drawtube is also up to you.

Pre-threaded stock can be had. You can use a drawtube with either of a D1-3 mount closer or an internal-taper mount style, tube length needed will be dictated by that choice.

The original drawtube is still on there and the threads look good, BUT the length was obviously done to accommodate whatever type of 5C adapter that was there, that I didn’t get with the lathe.
I’ll measure the distance from the end of the drawtube to the spindle face.

I think I would prefer an internal taper adapter, since I might be able to leave it in place and still mount a chuck.

What is the spindle nose ID taper on the 10EE? MT5?

Chucks you are usually money-ahead to buy as "flat back", "NOS" can be good. Finding USED ones that are still any good is harder every year.

That’s definitely true!
I’ll be keeping my eyes peeled.


Turning four each 4-J jaws around is a tedious ITA. 4-J need not be expensive. I buy two chucks instead then leave one each way. D1-3 swaps pretty quickly.

A(ny) six-jaw should have "two-piece" jaws. Not just for reversing. For attach of pie or "soft" jaws.


Source the D1-3 backplates, separately, fit them in situ.

Good idea on having an inside 4 jaw chuck and an outside 4 jaw chuck.

Since floorspace is at a premium, I could hang all my chucks and faceplates from the ceiling like gongs to act as skull hardness testers and earthquake sway indicators… :-) Just kidding!
One nice feature of the HLV-H is the storage in the cabinet.

Steady rests turn up "now and then" but are not an emergency. You only have a 20" max c-to-c span and are not likely to need a steady..

Travel rest is more valuable. Think threading long slender screws. Monarch utilized five or so different ones. Of the rests. Not of the screws.

Thanks! Yeah, I agree.
 
Well it was only two knobs ... and you would also know if it was still "Hollow State" had been modified to Scissio solid-state drop-ins for the gas bottles, had been modified to a third-party DC Drive, or even to a VFD rig?

Oy! The SUSPENSE!

I can sleep.

Can you?

:)


Those are some big tubes in there!

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Not sure why those straps are open. Looks like they should have another bolt holding them down…
Probably someone trying to diagnose the DC drive problem(s).
 
Compared to all-band radio receivers or transmitters - even serious audio gear - of "hollow state days", they are brutally simple.

Those familiar could strip it to bare metal, have it all cleaned, polished and back together in a single days' cumulative work, or not a great deal more. Several on PM have done it. Waiting for parts takes more time than putting them into place. BFD.

Those people should come over and do that and I’ll ply them with beer, wine and various grilled meats and veggies from our garden.
And if our chickens don’t start laying eggs soon, fresh chicken might be on the menu too…
Sharks can’t compare to chickens in a feeding frenzy! Anybody that falls into their pen will be nothing but bones in 30 minutes… :-)
I had to pen them in because chickens apparently ravenously eat tomatoes and were destroying our tomato plants.
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The part to love MOST is that these (and the later Module drive) only need single-phase power, and not even a huge ration OF it.

As Tim has sorted-out and now proven in use the adaptation of modern SCR's as drop-in replacements for the hardest to find - and ever-more-costly, big Argon tubes?

Retain it.

Clean it up.

Not hard to see it running every bit as well as it did the day it left the factory. I kid you not. 100%

It's the least-costly in money, and least-hassle in time, way to run the lathe.

Modification to a modern "4Q"DC Drive allows shedding all the DC panel, a great deal of no-longer needed wires, and makes placing the controls anywhere you want them dead-easy.

But it RUNS only slightly better, saves space you didn't need to save, and cannot easily use for storing stuff anyway.

And costs more money.

Yeah. Inexpensive solutions for the next while would be good. While I know Harry gave me great deals on the lathes, add in shipping and it has dented my credit cards/bank account.

"Obsolete" is not the same as "useless".

Or so I try to keep my wife convinced.. and she, me, thankfully!

:D

LOL!!
:D
 
So, to tool this 10EE up, I am looking for:

-drawings for Monarch 10EE follower rests, bedway, cross-slide & compound, headstock & tailstock

-Monarch 10EE 5C bullet nose D1-3 camlock taper adapter

-Aloris CXA/Dorian Quadra toolpost and holders

-follower rest

-steadyrest

-…


I did acquire this steadyrest a while ago, but not sure what lathe it is for:

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I am not finding any stamps or markings on it.



South Bend?
Monarch?
 
Email Terri for a quote. AFAIK, cost is more the TIME to go dig them out of old files than for the copying.

NB: Only a few of us ever HAD those. Most just measure what is right in front of us in "3D". Are you sure you NEED them?

No, I don’t need them and can measure some of it as ground truth for my 10EE, but it still would be cool to have.

D1-3's get made "from scratch" on PM now and then.

Yeah. I just saw J King’s collet chuck and it is beautiful!

I was talking with my friend Alex who is a 10EE aficionado/collector and he showed me his bullet nose 5C adapter, which is what my lathe needs for the Royal collet closer.

ANY D1-3 goods are is going to fit, meant for 10EE or never were.

The Stub #12 Jarno spindle taper is less universally common.

I use a key-cranker 5C collet chuck on D1-3 mount instead. Seldom. Very.

I prefer the 2J for 10EE use.

I have some 16C and 3J collets (and A1-6 taper adapters for them) on top of the usual 5C collection.
The thought has crossed my mind to convert the A1-6 adapters to D1-6 so I can use them on the Large & Shapely.
One wonders if anyone has made a D1-3 to D1-6 adapters. That would be a strange beast indeed and probably not a good idea due to excessive stickout and weight off the spindle nose.

Double-checked the size? Not my bag, "tuning forks".
4-Way guy. Stiffer. But I don' run no steenkin' "carbides" anyway.

You could be able to at least make chips cheaply and soon with a used 4-Way? Size is close to even the SB and Logan tens. Two of my many are ex Hardinge.

Find the PM threads on follow rests and aside yourself a set of the photos. There are at least FOUR different ones that fit a 10EE, and few look anywhere near like any of the others

"Generic" universal problem-solver? If the size is close, you should be able to adapt it. ot tal lenoug to mathccentrline is easy. Too-tall is harder. Adjustment is good enough you need not hit the height dead-nuts, just close.

Plop it on and see how close it is and what has to be made or altered.

Yeah.
That’s why I picked them up.
To adapt them if workable, or sell/trade them to get more suitable goods.
 
South Bend did have telescoping steady rests, but that style is more rare for them. Looking at style of casting my impression is not South Bend.

The follower rest is more of a South Bend style with the two open slots for mounting and square head adjusting screw. Also just above the mounting, see the cast part number, looks like 14-xxx. They did their part numbers with that kind of casting. If you get that casting number cleaned off email Ted, aka SBLatheman, and he can probably tell you.

Ted
[email protected]
 
Thanks!

South Bend did have telescoping steady rests, but that style is more rare for them. Looking at style of casting my impression is not South Bend.

Just for kicks, I put the steady on the 10EE.

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Too high and offset to the side as well.
There’s not enough meat on the base to machine it to fit properly

The follower rest is more of a South Bend style with the two open slots for mounting and square head adjusting screw. Also just above the mounting, see the cast part number, looks like 14-xxx. They did their part numbers with that kind of casting. If you get that casting number cleaned off email Ted, aka SBLatheman, and he can probably tell you.

Ted
[email protected]

Thanks!
 
Concerning your WIAD, this is what I did. I am in no way an electronics guy at all. Mine was very original but all the wires were rotten with lots of splices here and there. I bet yours is the same. I decided that a fix alittle here, chase aliitle there was a fools errand, and the only way to get a reliable unit was to completely restore the whole thing...all of it. I pulled out the Wiad unit and removed ,traced and replaced EVERY wire, drew up a rough schematic of every run, every wire. I think I used almost a 1000 feet of wire, there is a lot. I pulled all the resistors, learned to identify the values and replaced ALL of them. I bench checked every component. Many of the oil filled capacitors are special, some of mine were leaking, I was able to get a second WIAD unit and put together a complete working set from the two units. Something that might prove problematic is some of the transformers. Mine was originally set up for 440V but most of the transformers were able to be "restrapped" to the lower 220V. Monarch has build schematics for the WIAD, that is it shows where every wire goes, and how to set up the transformers. You will need this, and compare your schematics to the official Monarch one, and you will find some big mistakes and wonder, "what idiot worked on this machine"? A major snag is the correct filament transformers. If yours are correct for the voltage and in good shape, you're golden,if not ,you will have to find replacements, not real easy. Monarch may have a better used electronic stash now than they used to. There was a member here that had some made and that saved my bacon, but that was a long time ago. You can check almost all of the components with a good multimeter, but may need something more specialized for the caps. I am scratching the surface here, but it is doable, and a proper running WIAD is a delight to use and those tubes look really cool when running. I have thought to install a clear door on the WIAD end with a mirror for the light show, it is kinda impressive.
 
Thanks for your response and sound advice!

Concerning your WIAD, this is what I did. I am in no way an electronics guy at all. Mine was very original but all the wires were rotten with lots of splices here and there. I bet yours is the same. I decided that a fix alittle here, chase aliitle there was a fools errand, and the only way to get a reliable unit was to completely restore the whole thing...all of it. I pulled out the Wiad unit and removed ,traced and replaced EVERY wire, drew up a rough schematic of every run, every wire. I think I used almost a 1000 feet of wire, there is a lot. I pulled all

Seems like a reasonable approach to me, although definitely time consuming!
There is an angel on one shoulder telling me to do your approach, but the devil on my other shoulder is whispering to me about how much easier and faster it would be to put a 10HP 3ph motor and a VFD in there… :-)
I’m pretty sure Bill will chime in on the side of the angel here! :-)

1000 feet of wire?!?? Holy moly!
Copper costs money these days (I’m _STILL_ looking for spools of copper #2 AWG and #6 AWG!!)
Am I going to have to sell more of my body parts again?!??

What gage wire were you mostly using?

the resistors, learned to identify the values and replaced ALL of them. I bench checked every component. Many of the oil filled capacitors are special, some of mine were leaking, I was able to get a second WIAD unit and put together a complete working set from the two units. Something that might prove problematic is some of the transformers. Mine was originally set up for 440V but most of the transformers were able to be "restrapped" to the lower 220V. Monarch has build schematics for the WIAD, that is it shows where every wire goes, and how to set up the transformers. You will need this, and compare your schematics to the official Monarch one, and you will find some big mistakes and wonder, "what idiot worked on this machine"? A major snag is the correct filament transformers. If yours are correct for the voltage and in good shape, you're golden,if not ,you will have to find replacements, not real easy. Monarch may have a better used electronic stash now than they used to. There was a member here that had some made and that saved my bacon, but that was a long time ago. You can check almost all of the components with a good multimeter, but may need something more specialized for the caps. I am scratching the surface here, but it is doable, and a proper running WIAD is a delight to use and those tubes look really cool when running. I have thought to install a clear door on the WIAD end with a mirror for the light show, it is kinda impressive.

I love the idea of a clear window to see the plasma in the tubes!

I have good multimeters and my friend will loan me pretty much any other test equipment I might need.

Thanks!
 
When I traced all the circuits, I looked at the wire used. I think there were about three different gauges. Mine were all cloth covered (1959) and crumbling. Alot of the solder joints were corroded, and starting to disintegrate, even if wire looked ok. That is the reason I stated, that if you just fix alittle here and there, it will bite you in the ass.
 








 
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