1962 Monarch 10EE 10x30 Tool Room Lathe - Page 2
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  1. #21
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    Looks like a dandy snag to me!

    I would have left tailstock on, and rigged to lift from under the bed, just to right of the chuck (balance)... once on trailer, screw blocks down to the deck at all points, then secure down with no less than four straps (one towards each corner) and another two, one front to rear, and rear to front.

    I'd probably stop by a car-wash and knock off all the crap and loose paint, then take it straight into a dry garage, get it as dry as I can, then apply oil and/or wax to the machined surfaces to protect them.

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  3. #22
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    Damn, Ive been looking around as well for months on CL,Ebay,& other sites before I found my 10EE a couple weeks ago. I went small to larger radius searches. I drove 885 miles round trip to get mine. Thats a good find right there. I too would have loved to have a 30” between centers.

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  5. #23
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    I'll be interested to know if you decide to have the bed ground, or try a grinding sled.

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  7. #24
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    Thanks for the pic of the inner vee way. I thought my ridge was bad but you win with that one. Good thing you can buy Rulon in thicknesses up to .125" so the normal rebuild process still works.

    Agreed with above, it's crusty but I'm jealous too.

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  9. #25
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    The only fear would be that because the ways are so worn that you would have to grind beyond the hardened surface to clean it up. Probably not a huge issue as the machine will never be used to such a extent as to be a concern.

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  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaveKamp View Post
    Looks like a dandy snag to me!

    I would have left tailstock on. . .
    Thanks, and good advice on a few items there. The location and situation where the lathe is has some unknowns to me. I snatched the tails stock the first day as a bit of buyers insurance . Grabbed the end covers, compound, cross slide CF dial the next day. Hope to not have any sad stories.

    To Rabler on bed re-grind or sled. After staring at the Series 61 for quite a while, the 10ee seems small, like I can man handle almost anything . With the bed a whole lot shorter, and lighter. . .It leaves options open I think. Physical cost of moving, or real cost of potential shipping much less than the 61. I didn't do a full eval yet, but it seems like carriage flat way is fine. So if sent out to only grind inner vee. . .maybe not a terrible cost, not sure yet though. Priority #1 rebuild is the 61. So I think I will have better answers after getting through that.

    To Daryl Bane, agree on both points, particularly that the machine will not see 8-12 hour shifts 5 days a week again. Maybe more so with me. I'm not what I think of as a production type guy. More into repairs through my life, career, temperament I guess. So tend use machines to help me in those endeavors, and to work on other machines .

    A lot of good replies and interest, thanks a lot guys. I'll keep updating and posting pics as I get sorted. I've gone through several machines as far as tear downs, clean, lube, and misc repairs. I'm about to attempt my first scraping and such of a Series 61. That should kick off in a couple weeks or so, as I had been prepping for it leading to this 10ee buy. Hopefully I'll figure out some good lessons to apply here.

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  13. #27
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    Nice score! The bed wear is extreme, considering it had a full rebuild in 89. Maybe they already ground it once, and the hard surface was already ground off? I have always wondered if a 10EE bed could be re-hardened prior to grinding. I also wonder whether Monarch still has a flame-hardening setup.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rimcanyon View Post
    Nice score! The bed wear is extreme, considering it had a full rebuild in 89. Maybe they already ground it once, and the hard surface was already ground off? I have always wondered if a 10EE bed could be re-hardened prior to grinding. I also wonder whether Monarch still has a flame-hardening setup.
    That could be right, but in my head I'm already blaming a failure in the lube system. I really don't care for so many Bijur pop fittings in machines. Each one just adds another failure point. It seems like most wear and damage to machines I see is lube failure, not natural wear from use with a working lube system.

    A guy who cares and uses his eyeballs to look and check things might spot a problem and do something about it. But obvious, that hasn't always happened.

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  16. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by texasgunsmith View Post
    That could be right, but in my head I'm already blaming a failure in the lube system. I really don't care for so many Bijur pop fittings in machines. Each one just adds another failure point. It seems like most wear and damage to machines I see is lube failure, not natural wear from use with a working lube system.

    A guy who cares and uses his eyeballs to look and check things might spot a problem and do something about it. But obvious, that hasn't always happened.
    Yes, that always gets to me too. Also rebuilders without a lot of sense, who take great pains to refinish a machine without really doing the basics. I have a 100% rebuilt 59 machine that I am currently working on. The paint was flawless, nice 2-part epoxy. Even the inside of the motor compartment, apron and headstock were painted with a red glyptol. The bed was ground and a new saddle installed, but for the saddle v-way, they machined a straight line oil channel, no zig-zag, and it left a wear line on the v that was quite prominent.

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  18. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by thermite View Post
    Not the only example built on "mature" Iron", AKA "proven and respected".. Okuma?
    The Schaublin 125-CCN is still made today. It's bed is very similar to the original 125 manual machines casting.
    Mark

  19. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by texasgunsmith View Post
    To Rabler on bed re-grind or sled. After staring at the Series 61 for quite a while, the 10ee seems small, like I can man handle almost anything . With the bed a whole lot shorter, and lighter. . .It leaves options open I think. Physical cost of moving, or real cost of potential shipping much less than the 61. I didn't do a full eval yet, but it seems like carriage flat way is fine. So if sent out to only grind inner vee. . .maybe not a terrible cost, not sure yet though. Priority #1 rebuild is the 61. So I think I will have better answers after getting through that.

    I'm about to attempt my first scraping and such of a Series 61. That should kick off in a couple weeks or so, as I had been prepping for it leading to this 10ee buy. Hopefully I'll figure out some good lessons to apply here.
    I'll definitely be watching your progress and trying to pick up anything I can from your work. I do have to say though, if you can manhandle a 30" bed 10EE, I'm going to be very impressed.

    These projects are fun, and you obviously had to jump on this 10EE when it came available as another 30" may not come along in the next decade within the same area. But I do know how things stack up.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rabler View Post
    I'll definitely be watching your progress and trying to pick up anything I can from your work. I do have to say though, if you can manhandle a 30" bed 10EE, I'm going to be very impressed.

    These projects are fun, and you obviously had to jump on this 10EE when it came available as another 30" may not come along in the next decade within the same area. But I do know how things stack up.
    The total lathe has a bit of weight to it, I'm thinking 3500 lbs or so. But a great deal of it seems to be below the bed. Base and chip pan is a big hunk of cast iron. But just comparing the head stock of the 61 in the vicinity of 2000 lbs, I thought this might be easier. And funny, the styling of items like apron, carriage etc is very similar, just a whole lot smaller on this. I was thinking those I could snatch off by hand.

    I had just cleaned and organized my shop like 2 weeks ago. I swore I was not buying anything till I cleared some other projects . With 2 lathes already I figured I was set there. But this was hard to pass up.

    I got the 10ee loaded on trailer yesterday and home. Today I got it off the trailer and inside my shop. I just need to get it moved to its parking spot, till I sort out its permanent location.

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  22. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by rimcanyon View Post
    . . . The bed was ground and a new saddle installed, but for the saddle v-way, they machined a straight line oil channel, no zig-zag, and it left a wear line on the v that was quite prominent.
    Got the machine in and parked for now. Just doing a rough, first stage cleaning of ways. Outer vee and outer flat also have a single line. Guessing when I lift the carriage I'll find a straight line oil trench as well.

    38.jpg 39.jpg 40.jpg

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    Couldn't stand walking past this machine with ways looking like this.

    34.jpg 35.jpg

    Did a first wave, rough cleaning.

    36.jpg 37.jpg

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    Again, not really looking to dive into this as a project today, but wanting to do a bit of an evaluation for parts and information gathering.

    A quick head stock inspection. Thankfully looks nice.

    55.jpg 54.jpg 56.jpg

    One set of gears either coated in something, or made out of "other" material:

    57.jpg

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    Quote Originally Posted by texasgunsmith View Post
    One set of gears either coated in something, or made out of "other" material:

    57.jpg
    Drive gearing for the mechanical tachometer. A micarta family phenolic.

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    Pulled the chuck to examine spindle. I swear one day, I mean one day, I'm going to buy a lathe that already has a 4 jaw chuck on it.

    A pic after pulling chuck:

    58.jpg

    I spent about 5 minutes doing a quick cleaning to spindle. That looks in great shape:

    59.jpg

    One thing bugging me. Looking at various books, manuals etc. They say spindle taper should be #2mt, and through hole 1 13/32" (1.406") ? ? 2mt is whole lot smaller than that.

    Measuring outer ID at 1.500"

    60.jpg

    There a space and a 2nd portion, presumably to hold a center or adapter. The further depth to rear of that 2nd spot is about 2.25" and the ID at that depth is in the vicinity of 1.375".

    Only thing I can think is short versions of either 4-1/2mt, Jarno #12, or B & S #11. I would lean toward MT of that lot. But maybe I'm missing something, or it takes an adapter. Anyone know ?

    Edit, before posting I recalled Brian Miller makes specialty items for South Bend and Monarch. Under his items I see Jarno #12 test bar for 10ee's. Dammit ! I see more money flying away !

    Products – Miller Machine and Fabrication

    64.jpg

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    Quote Originally Posted by texasgunsmith View Post
    Jarno #12, .....it takes an adapter.

    .. Jarno #12 test bar for 10ee's.
    WHO said "2 MT"? That's the tailstock. On all but a few late-production that had 3 MT.

    The HS bore taper is a truncated #12 jarno with an odd gauge-line. My #12 jarno centers stick-out as much as 1 1/2" more than an adaptor carrying #2 or #2 MT centers for the HS.

    Brian Miller's test bars are SUPERB!

    I have his #12 jarno for the 10EE's, and a 5 MT one for the Cazeneuve & the Alzmetall DP.

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    Quote Originally Posted by thermite View Post

    WHO said "2 MT"? That's the tailstock. On all but a few late-production that had 3 MT.


    Brian Miller's test bars are SUPERB!
    Monarch said it, in multiple manual/catalog specs that I found 1950's thru 1970's that I saw :

    62.jpg

    On TS, I don't see taper mentioned, and I didn't happen to check yet. Maybe a repeated print mistake, who knows.

    67.jpg

    Agree about Brian Miller's work. I have two of his myself, the South Bend #3 and a #5MT. You get what you pay for. I'll cry once, but it will a long sobbing cry.

    In other news, good news even. I stuck a .001" Last Word indicator in spindle. Yea, yea I know its only .001", but its what I got. Anyway rock solid. Needle didn't flinch off the zero line, full and multiple rotations:

    65.jpg 66.jpg

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    Quote Originally Posted by texasgunsmith View Post
    Monarch said it, in multiple manual/catalog specs I found 1950's thru 1970's that I saw :

    62.jpg
    MONARCH... also shipped one or BOTH of their TWO OEM adapters.

    One for #12 jarno to #2 MT got you all the c-to-c daylight they had to give.

    The #12 jarno to #3 MT was for work that had been centre-divoted with a larger pilot. It could still find area on which to bear further out.

    The #2 MT at the other end still set the top limit for mass. Not that there was enough daylight to support a huge mill roll, but Plutonium is HEAVY s**t.



    Agree about Brian Miller's work. I have two of his myself, the South Bend #3 and a #5MT. You get what you pay for. I'll cry once, but it will a long sobbing cry.
    Yazz.. Brian was up to his armpits in other work when I ordered my # 5MT. So I bought one out of a major-maker in India. Not bad for the price. But NO match for Brian's bars when his one DID arrive!

    Mind, both ends on the HBX are 5 MT, but then I also have the Alzmetall DP. So two bars, one only mediocre, is useful.

    In other news, good news even. I stuck a .001" Last Word indicator in spindle. Yea, yea I know its only .001", but its what I got. Anyway rock solid. Needle didn't flinch off the zero line, full and multiple rotations:

    65.jpg 66.jpg
    Like I said on the phone: Hamilton ten-millionths. Mahr 20 millionths.

    It can take all of a day to REALLY get the spindle bore taper near-as-dammit perfect. Tiny dings are raised on the front edge just back of the relief for the arse-end of the D1-3 camlocks off folks tossing goods into the taper over the ages.

    It then took a full day to map the many-rotation precession of the rolling-elements in the spindle bearings.

    And you don't get anything useful off a ten-millionths indicator supported off an ignorant mag base, Noga or other, either.

    Dural-tube fully-triangulated mount, rather. Robbed two ancient shotgun cleaning kits, 12 bore and 16 bore, for their same-size, more pieces screw-together cleaning rods!

    PITA. Turned out that my bearings are waay out of spec vs the OEM 50-millionths TIR.

    Mine are at 130 millionths.

    13 one-hundred thousandths.

    1.3 "tenths".

    0.13 thou.

    0.000130"

    BFD.

    My best workholding struggles to do TWO tenths! The lathe is still better than I need it to be, 1942 vintage or other.

    "Run what you got!"

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