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  1. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by texasgunsmith View Post
    IOne thing I'm curious, on the sheet metal cover currently mounted, a switch labeled "slow and fast". Any ideas what that is for ?
    I've NO idea what "they" did, but..

    One of my boost transformer array is 48 VAC.

    I can flick a toggle switch and drop the AC-input side from 349 VAC to 48 VAC.

    All other settings in the 514C-16 SSD's world remain the same.

    But it NOW has to pulse the half-cycles to 100%-ON near-as-dammit sine-wave smooth to get the power asked for.. and fail to do.

    Poor-boy's version of a smoother low-power, low RPM overall device.

    Make chips with an intentionally weakened 10EE?
    Nope.

    Why, then?

    - It makes my "creep-not-jog" function gentler and easier to make good use of.

    - Similar less aggressive positioning with power feeds

    - And reduces risk of breakage for small taps.

    As said, I don't know what THEY did it for.

    But there is always some advantage or another as can be found.

    Cheaply enough, too.

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    That machine had the ELSR option so there would be a pot to adjust the reverse speed relative to the forward speed. That way you can reverse back to the start of thread faster than cutting speed. Normally with ELSR the half nuts are kept closed. It takes a bit of fussing to set up but it's kind of fun to play with.

    M

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark999 View Post
    That machine had the ELSR option so there would be a pot to adjust the reverse speed relative to the forward speed. That way you can reverse back to the start of thread faster than cutting speed. Normally with ELSR the half nuts are kept closed. It takes a bit of fussing to set up but it's kind of fun to play with.

    M
    I was wondering about that. I saw a little bit about the elsr, but i thought it just turned power off to spindle when you bumped into the stop. Got more reading to do i guess,

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    Quote Originally Posted by texasgunsmith View Post
    I picked up a nice switch face to put power controls back to a more original position. Power switches mounted on motor base as I received it:

    Attachment 320176

    With the new switch face it'll go back toward TS end:

    Attachment 320177
    You have the same "new" switch panel as mine had originally. While there is some appeal to keeping things original, I certainly don't like the fact that the "On" switch stands out and the "Off" switch is recessed, harder to slap quickly. Mine's getting completely replaced, but you might want to consider whether you lean toward original or modern safety standards.

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    Good point. My concern for both mounting positions was the lower height of mounting. Accidental knee or leg bumping switches on or off at inopportune times. I like higher power switch mounting.

    My other thought was I'm used to standing by headstock, clear of chuck and work when i hit the go button. Need to get used to standing TS end, but atleast can still be clear of moving parts.

    As a kid, and an idiot , it seemed like all my shop classes were on par or worse, lol. Same with a good number of like machines as an adult. I think it helped me learn caution, and use my head a bit. So for my own personal use I'm ok with it. Might re-think that if i was going to let a teenager from today run it.

    Maybe that's why adults/old timers screamed and yelled, and always seemed angry when we were young,lol.

  8. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by texasgunsmith View Post
    I was wondering about that. I saw a little bit about the elsr, but i thought it just turned power off to spindle when you bumped into the stop. Got more reading to do i guess,
    It takes advantage of a by-product, basically.

    - No two 10EE will necessarily stop the spindle in the same ration of movement after a power OFF.

    - No ONE 10EE will always stop its spindle in the same ration of movement from one day to the next day, one week to the next week, or month vs some other month.

    Not that one can COUNT on. But one need not. "Count on".

    Because nearly ALL DC driven 10EE WILL stop the spindle with very, very close to the same ration of rotation, sequential stops, one after another, within the same JOB tasking.

    Which is really all one NEEDS.

    Otherwise...

    We tend to credit Hendey for having a DIFFERENT but very effective all-mechanical means of making threading easier. Most ESPECIALLY for an inch-built lathe doing metric threads or a metric-built lathe doing inch threads.

    But the way Hendey did it was also rather common on lathes made in continental Europe in the inch/metric combo days.

    USA was inch, took first place as the global industrial power right after our civil war, then held it.

    UK was still inch, held a strong second for easily another 60 years.

    France, Germany, Italy, Spain, Russia, et al might have been officially metric, but Europe was FULL of goods and machinery made to the "inch". Same again India, China, etc.

    They just dealt with that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by texasgunsmith View Post
    I already have a little bit of a 5c set going for a South Bend 16" lathe, but a good portion are garbage brand. My one goal is to build a really complete set in 5c. And all in Hardinge, or other better brands. And will probably shop and piece it together over time. And I like the 5c collet blocks you can use with a mill too. I will at some point get the 5c collet chucks for both the Monarch series 61, and the 10ee.

    But I am thinking to get the added range in the 2j. Which can benefit both the Series 61 and the 10ee. And I can share collets between them.

    Speaking of "collet crazy" and impulse purchases. . .. Today, made an offer on a Sjogren chuck for the series 61, accepted. From another seller, bought outright a set of 13 Hardinge 2j's, covering mostly the larger diameter, which is how I wanted to start with that. Both items together, shipped and taxed I am into it for $450, not too terrible I think.
    I have seen but not used adapters that will go from 2j to 5c, so you can use the 5c in a 2j chuck. Can not vouch for any loss in accuracy, but these guys say tir = .0005, USA made. I just ended up getting more sizes of 2j so did not need to buy the adaptor.

    16C, 3J & 2J to 5C Adapters – Exact Tooling

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rob F. View Post
    I have seen but not used adapters that will go from 2j to 5c, so you can use the 5c in a 2j chuck. Can not vouch for any loss in accuracy, but these guys say tir = .0005, USA made. I just ended up getting more sizes of 2j so did not need to buy the adaptor.

    16C, 3J & 2J to 5C Adapters – Exact Tooling
    I appreciate that. I think you guys might be a bad influence on me though. I went a little collet crazy I guess. I came to conclusion that I wanted to go with nice collets, and all in Hardinge if possible. Made an offer on a 40 plus piece set of 5c's, and got it. All Hardinge:

    95.jpg

    But I think I will keep them for the South Bend 16" and mill and grinder attachments.

    For the Monarchs, a 10ee, and a series 61 I'm going to use 2J and build it out in 64th's. Man that's a lot of collets when you're going to 1 3/8". I bought a few lots of 2J's. After receiving some in, I feel like its the right call. Nice and heavy, just real good quality:

    92.jpg

    I got the Sjogren chuck in for the series 61. The mechanism spins real nice, threads and collet taper nice. Just a blemished hand wheel:

    94.jpg

    I had an unhappy moment when I mounted it. Checked spindle, zero runout. With the Sjogren I was measuring about .0013" runout. I unlocked it from spindle and located it nearly 180 degrees from the first measurement and got it down to .0004". I only checked those two positions, might get better in another spot. But I like the .0004" a whole lot better so far.

    93.jpg

    I found a 2a 3d Sjogren for the 10ee too. Should have it next week. I'll post on it when it comes.

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  13. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by texasgunsmith View Post
    use 2J and build it out in 64th's. Man that's a lot of collets when you're going to 1 3/8".
    No need.

    Do 5C and 2J to 32nds only.
    Or do 2J in inch, 5C in Metric by 1 mm.

    Buy 2 or more "emergency" collets for each. Not just "soft" steel. Brass/Bronze/Nylon?

    Buy any size, US or Metric, of 5C or 2J you do not have and actually NEED.
    When you need it. Or have a bespoke plan.


    - Meanwhile? Use "one or more of":

    ER family,

    Rubberflex 900

    Burnerd multisize

    ("ALL of the above" works too!)

    .. to cover the odd, odd, odd sizes.

    Because all of those have WIDE clamping ranges for each of their collets.


    - 3", 4", 5" four-jaw. one of each. If a chuck is too big? The jaws cannot close down to grip tiny work, nor - more importantly - clear existing odd shapes or features.

    Collets don't work all that well at holding a carburettor casting, do they?

    - SEVERAL 6" 4-Jaw.

    - A 6" 6-Jaw: Thinwall tubing and thin rings.

    At least ONE large, even if low-grade, 4-Jaw for the odd max-size work.

    And a faceplate. Or several. To be tooled-up with fixturing for wierd stuff. mostly.

    Keep a Blanchard-ground disk around. Build what you need onto it, fasten to the faceplate.

    Hardinge 2-Jaw?

    Walker-for-Hardinge magnetic?

    Meahh...... Don't TELL me you never heard the term "tool whore?"




    Just don't f**k-up and allow ANY 3-Jaw scroll under your roof!

    I only had a French "Handy" 3-Jaw here as a visitor.
    Never once used it.

    And my d**k ceased to function, anyway!



    Well..

    I had to blame it on SOMETHING, yah?
    Last edited by thermite; 05-01-2021 at 03:25 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by texasgunsmith View Post

    I had an unhappy moment when I mounted it. Checked spindle, zero runout. With the Sjogren I was measuring about .0013" runout. I unlocked it from spindle and located it nearly 180 degrees from the first measurement and got it down to .0004". I only checked those two positions, might get better in another spot. But I like the .0004" a whole lot better so far.
    That's unlikely to be a real solution. Time to get the plastigage out and see what is going on. Put two-three pieces on the spindle taper, tighten up the chuck and see what clearance you have. My experience buying used camlock chucks on Ebay is that a lot of it does not fit the lathe well. A few years ago I went through every chuck and faceplate I own, measured the fits, and machined the backs to fit. Most had around .0005" - .001" of spindle clearance.

    Keep in mind that if you have .001" clearance in the taper, you will have to remove about .010" from the flat back. I got pretty good results by mounting a Monarch 5C spindle nose with a 1" collet holding a 6" long 1" dowel. I put a 1" collet in the Sjogren, mounted it ass backwards on the dowel, and turned both the taper and the flat. Results were excellent, .0002" runout max.

    camlock spindle accuracy

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  17. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by rimcanyon View Post
    That's unlikely to be a real solution. Time to get the plastigage out and see what is going on. Put two-three pieces on the spindle taper, tighten up the chuck and see what clearance you have. My experience buying used camlock chucks on Ebay is that a lot of it does not fit the lathe well. A few years ago I went through every chuck and faceplate I own, measured the fits, and machined the backs to fit. Most had around .0005" - .001" of spindle clearance.

    Keep in mind that if you have .001" clearance in the taper, you will have to remove about .010" from the flat back. I got pretty good results by mounting a Monarch 5C spindle nose with a 1" collet holding a 6" long 1" dowel. I put a 1" collet in the Sjogren, mounted it ass backwards on the dowel, and turned both the taper and the flat. Results were excellent, .0002" runout max.

    camlock spindle accuracy
    That's really good info, appreciate that. I really hadn't thought of that. That link is real informative as well.

    I bet that's exactly what's going on. Just shoving up into place to lock the locks, my impression was I had .0005" to .001" just holding it there prior to locking.

    Something I'll address later as I get running and look to tune everything out. But I wonder if only taking a little off the flat would tighten that up.

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    Quote Originally Posted by texasgunsmith View Post
    That's really good info, appreciate that. I really hadn't thought of that. That link is real informative as well.

    I bet that's exactly what's going on. Just shoving up into place to lock the locks, my impression was I had .0005" to .001" just holding it there prior to locking.

    Something I'll address later as I get running and look to tune everything out. But I wonder if only taking a little off the flat would tighten that up.
    They CAN and DO get burrs! Check that first! Also that you have good studs. Their camming shape wears, sometimes rather badly, and always at a faster rate than the mating cams in the spindle nose. Those are also preplaceable. Mac-it is your go-to.

    Mac-it for US camlock studs as well. The cheaper-weaker Metric ones are "don't care". Shars have them cheaply.

    .

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    Well I think I have my 10ee color. I ran my recipe from the various Patrick Black paint threads, on the front side of my B & S surface grinder. In person, it just looks so great.

    I only did mediocre prep work to the B & S as I'm not rebuilding it yet, but I did do some prep. I wrote more details here:
    Patrick Black's Paint Recipe

    In person it looks so good, but the pics look just ok to me. Good news is the paint lays down real nice, and has a nice glossy finish.

    I plan to use this color for the 10ee and the Monarch Tool Cabinet, minus the yellow highlights.

    15.jpg 16.jpg 17.jpg 18.jpg 19.jpg

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    Quote Originally Posted by texasgunsmith View Post
    Well I think I have my 10ee color. I ran my recipe from the various Patrick Black paint threads, on the front side of my B & S surface grinder. In person, it just looks so great.
    Wha'dideyesay? As far as we KNOW.. it was never an OEM machine-tool colour.

    And yet? It just LOOKS as if it would have been and "period correct" at that for the Older of Old Iron goods!



    Mind . the 10EE's are not where i'm keen on it .. but what the hey "2035" aint that far off..

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    I got the Sjogren 2A-D3 in. Threads are ok, and mechanism works. Its pretty crudy like it sat untouched for many years. So I'm thinking I'll have to tear it down and clean it one day. The rubber on hand wheel is still rubbery, and not concrete , was surprised by that. Have not tried to look, but hoping the handhweel is pretty and in good shape under it.

    Nice to have the model that was listed on build sheet anyway. I'll work on filling out the 2J collets over time:

    96.jpg 97.jpg

    Now for the nightmare part of the story.

    The 46 collet piece of all Hardinge 5c's, which looked like this:

    95.jpg

    They arrived in this box:

    28.jpg

    24 of the 46 collets missing. Its now a 22 piece set. . .

    30.jpg

    Super bummed out. Went to my post office, they checked their "lost items", no luck. Contacted seller. He had insurance, and is in contact with me. So hopefully something works out there.

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    Quote Originally Posted by texasgunsmith View Post
    24 of the 46 collets missing. Its now a 22 piece set. . .

    Super bummed out. Went to my post office, they checked their "lost items", no luck. Contacted seller. He had insurance, and is in contact with me. So hopefully something works out there.
    S**t happens. Not as if you had a DoD contract hung with thousand-dollar-a day penalty clauses hung over lack of a 2J, is it?

    Keep on truckin'


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    Quote Originally Posted by texasgunsmith View Post
    Super bummed out. Went to my post office, they checked their "lost items", no luck. Contacted seller. He had insurance, and is in contact with me. So hopefully something works out there.
    Sorry to hear it. I have had my share of ebay sellers who are clueless about how to ship. Good luck working it out.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rimcanyon View Post
    Re: 5C vs. 2J. I started out with a 5C set that I used on previous lathes. One thing I found about 5C collets is that they are often sprung, because they are relatively light weight. Shortly after acquiring my first 10EE, I found a listing like this one on Ebay:

    ***NEW*** 63 Pc Hardinge 2J Collets Mixed Sizes Metal Working | eBay

    bought it and I have never looked back.
    Started looking harder at the same link you posted. I made an offer which put it just over $17 a collet. Accepted ! They even messaged me they had a few extra not listed they were throwing in. No duplicates with the listed 63 pieces anyway. Not sure what the others are yet, but these are all new.

    102.jpg 103.jpg

    This does leave me with some doubles and triples. It takes 88 pieces for a complete set in 2J by 64's. Was toying with the idea of creating a collet trade thread, be it 2J or others as well. We could post our duplicates, as well as the holes in our line up. Then for mere shipping costs, swap to fill gaps. Has anyone already done this, or anyone interested ?

  26. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by texasgunsmith View Post
    Started looking harder at the same link you posted. I made an offer which put it just over $17 a collet. Accepted ! They even messaged me they had a few extra not listed they were throwing in. No duplicates with the listed 63 pieces anyway. Not sure what the others are yet, but these are all new.

    102.jpg 103.jpg

    This does leave me with some doubles and triples. It takes 88 pieces for a complete set in 2J by 64's. Was toying with the idea of creating a collet trade thread, be it 2J or others as well. We could post our duplicates, as well as the holes in our line up. Then for mere shipping costs, swap to fill gaps. Has anyone already done this, or anyone interested ?
    Good going. Matches my current 2J price limit for collets: $18.

    I have done some trading like you describe, but I still have a few holes in the lineup, so I would be interested in a 2J collet trading thread.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rimcanyon View Post
    Good going. Matches my current 2J price limit for collets: $18.

    I have done some trading like you describe, but I still have a few holes in the lineup, so I would be interested in a 2J collet trading thread.
    Second the idea, but dunno if it needs anything more formal than what is already done :

    "Anybody have a ____ to swap or sell?"

    I'm out.

    32'ds is good enough, here, covers all three lathes. I have 5C, Rubberflex, and ER-40 for all the lathes, too - plus Burnerd Multisize for one of them.


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