2 Piece Crossfeed Nut Idea - Page 2
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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by thermite View Post
    The Monarch doen't have it because it took ages to wear-out, and then one simply replaced BOTH screw and nut. Might not be obvious until you get to fitting it, but the Monarch design lets you run straight and loose, then cock the nut off-line with but handy tools to provide a temporary tightening to reduce backlash.

    AND then.. take the sidegodlin stress back out for less demanding tasking so as not to make wear-rate worse than it is already.

    NB; Backlash doesn't much bother me. Never had a decent lathe, company owned it, I just ran it "as had".

    Need one for the 10EE's, Brian Miller, Miller Machine & Fab makes better ones than I care to try to match.

    Monarch Lathe is worth checking with. They are not "overpriced" unless actual 2020 costs, not 1940 costs require them to charge prevailing rates for things they may have to do from scratch off really old prints.
    You're right, I hadn't considered adjusting, then un-adjusting.

    And all in all, I could probably run the old nut no problem. The weight of the machine, and all the parts, I don't really expect it to bounce around on work.

    Right after I received the mt5 test bar from Brian, contacted him about this nut. He asked for a pic, said he needed to check if he had the acme tap. He didn't get back to me, so I'm guessing no. I did not try Monarch, probably should have, but I bought the tap, so I'm invested now, unless I break the tap during.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by texasgunsmith View Post
    You're right, I hadn't considered adjusting, then un-adjusting.

    And all in all, I could probably run the old nut no problem. The weight of the machine, and all the parts, I don't really expect it to bounce around on work.

    Right after I received the mt5 test bar from Brian, contacted him about this nut. He asked for a pic, said he needed to check if he had the acme tap. He didn't get back to me, so I'm guessing no. I did not try Monarch, probably should have, but I bought the tap, so I'm invested now, unless I break the tap during.
    Not sure Brian even has staff. Am sure he gets buried in work, now and then.

    The nut is just tedious. It's the screw that is a ball-buster. Long. THIN.

    One needs a follow-rest. I got mine! But it is for the 10EE's !

    LOTS of ways to MAKE a follow-rest. 10EE has 4 or 5 different ones available.

    It's just less in-your-face simple that a DIY steady rest. The follower has to travel with the carriage but ALSO leave the cross topslide free.

    Oncet saw a guy who had make a neat one, forgotten that s**ty-little detail, mounted it TO the topslide! Only reason I knowed about it was the aggravating f**kwit was lookin' at me outta the bathroom mirror, cussing me out, and calling ME stoopid! Well.. he surely had supporters and admirers for that, but it was still right cheeky, given he was also using my tootbrush and shaggin' my lady!

    The follower also needs to apply support close to, if not precisely back-of the tool-tip.

    And then.. threaded goods want to act as a hob and shear material off the pressure blocks if fixed, apply slip and side-loading to roller tips.

    Pain in the arse enough yah either buy already finished ones or at least pre-threaded stock and TiG it in.

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  4. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by rabler View Post
    Wouldn’t the spring compress under heavy load? I guess on a cross slide this could be configured for the lighter loaded retraction, except that would make using a boring bar sloppy. You could use a spring heavier than the worst case load but that would wear your leadscrew quickly. Am I missing something? A jam nut, if tightened only to just taking out slop, seems like a more rigid approach

    The spring was strong but we could adjust. A jam nut locks the nut so no jam nut used. Oil helps the wear. You have to use experience and common sense as to pressure added.
    The spring may not work on a lathe. Good point.
    Jackscrews are often used. Your pressing , how hard? Depends on the arm doing the twisting.
    At that point wear is the downhill slide and your doctoring.

    The pressure of a cutoff must be a hefty push against the threads while cranking in. That's more likely when more wear happens. Facing?
    There are many here that know better than myself. Keep it clean and well oiled if you can get too it. Its hidden from cleaning on most lathe's
    That slurry of oil ,ground bronze and steel eats at it. It is better than dry .
    Ball screw ! Not 0n old monarch's but maybe a future fix.

  5. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by mllud22 View Post
    Ball screw ! Not 0n old monarch's but maybe a future fix.
    The "future fix" was CNC and servos and resolvers that could control the reversible power transfer had to accompany it.

    As to "conventionals"?

    Invert common practice. Place the swarf shield on the upper side of the topslide.
    Open it to adjust for backlash, Clean and lube screw and cavity. Close it.

    etc.

  6. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by texasgunsmith View Post
    ... Why not try to create a 2 piece nut ? Then adjust where crossfeed screw is wore least. Even with a freshly cut nut I'd guess at least a couple thousandths play where CF screw is wore least. And gradually get worse, over maybe a short time period.
    ...
    Apparently in the early days of the 10EE, a two-piece cross-feed nut was used. I don't know that one has ever popped up, even on Sundstrand drive 10EEs, but the 1943 manual still shows the two piece nut with a pair of shims used to adjust the spacing of the halves. If you look at Parts Picture E-7, the nut is part 68 and the shims are part 69. Two dowel pins and four small socket head cap screws were used to align and connect the assembly. Parts Picture E-8 also shows the two-piece nut (parts 65 & 66).

    In theory, you could cut your nut in half with your thinnest slitting saw and make up shims. If you used an 0.0625" saw, you could use 0.050" shims, then chase the thing with your tap. Of course, you would want to drill holes for the dowel pins and screws before slitting the nut.

    Cal
    ---

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  8. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cal Haines View Post
    Apparently in the early days of the 10EE, a two-piece cross-feed nut was used. I don't know that one has ever popped up, even on Sundstrand drive 10EEs, but the 1943 manual still shows the two piece nut with a pair of shims used to adjust the spacing of the halves. If you look at Parts Picture E-7, the nut is part 68 and the shims are part 69. Two dowel pins and four small socket head cap screws were used to align and connect the assembly. Parts Picture E-8 also shows the two-piece nut (parts 65 & 66).

    In theory, you could cut your nut in half with your thinnest slitting saw and make up shims. If you used an 0.0625" saw, you could use 0.050" shims, then chase the thing with your tap. Of course, you would want to drill holes for the dowel pins and screws before slitting the nut.

    Cal
    ---
    Real interesting. Not the idea I was thinking. This slices in half, long ways through the threads. I wonder if the idea is to clamp down on screw tighter to remove end thrust, or shift upper and lower opposite ways to remove end play.

    My idea was to cut total length in half, then force two halves apart.

    The manual I looked, I'd swear the parts explosion looks like page E6, but maybe I'm supposed to see E7 on bottom. But parts description says E7. Parts #68 & #69 like you say.

    292.jpg 293.jpg 294.jpg

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    We're looking at the same thing. That manual has a number of instances where the parts picture header and the parts list headers don't match. The version that I have, which I think was corrected by Russ K, has the parts picture's header fixed so that it matches the parts list.

    Cal
    ---

  11. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by texasgunsmith View Post
    Real interesting. Not the idea I was thinking. This slices in half, long ways through the threads. I wonder if the idea is to clamp down on screw tighter to remove end thrust, or shift upper and lower opposite ways to remove end play.

    My idea was to cut total length in half, then force two halves apart.

    The manual I looked, I'd swear the parts explosion looks like page E6, but maybe I'm supposed to see E7 on bottom. But parts description says E7. Parts #68 & #69 like you say.

    292.jpg 293.jpg 294.jpg
    Splitting the nut long ways. Perhaps a couple of through bolts with a cam or eccentric shaped head could be used to push the halves in opposite directions. Using other bolts to tighten and clamp to hold position.

    Edit; The other bolts would have slotted holes.

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    I think a DRO and fitting a cross slide clamp would be a better use of your time and add a lot more value. It isn't a milling machine where backlash has a major impact on part size (milling a square etc.) I've never had the cross slide move in use (aka take up the lash) unless it is chattering like a SOB and then I've had bigger problems to fix.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nmbmxer View Post
    I think a DRO and fitting a cross slide clamp would be a better use of your time and add a lot more value. It isn't a milling machine where backlash has a major impact on part size (milling a square etc.) I've never had the cross slide move in use (aka take up the lash) unless it is chattering like a SOB and then I've had bigger problems to fix.
    A DRO is a great addition. I dont think the OP is worried about the backlash causing trouble.
    He is giving the lathe a going over fixing issues and has an idea for modifying the cross feed nut. Backlash can be lived with in most cases. Accuracy can be achieved without a DRO. You learn to feel and watch the adjustment.
    It has to do with weather or not you want too live with the sloppy handle. I'm a fan of improving the amount of slop and adding a DRO. A quarter inch is ok, a half or three quarters of a turn is to much.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nmbmxer View Post
    I think a DRO and fitting a cross slide clamp would be a better use of your time and add a lot more value. It isn't a milling machine where backlash has a major impact on part size (milling a square etc.) I've never had the cross slide move in use (aka take up the lash) unless it is chattering like a SOB and then I've had bigger problems to fix.
    DRO isn't "fully useful" unless the bed and carriage have been refreshed to predictability. Gonna have to be compensating.

    Cross slide lock so yah do not have to mess with a third-party clamp even "now and then" could be be NICE!

    Otherwise, new screw and OEM-style nut, backlash nor chatter, either one, ain't much problem. Not for perhaps 10 or 20 years of "smallholder" part-time use. Not as if it will ever again run 24 X 6 helping fight a War, is it?

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    Funny coink-ee-dink.

    I've been slowly and casually back tracking pages of threads for interesting rebuilds etc for this link:
    Major Rebuilds, Repairs, & Info Per Manufacture

    Some of which are kind of wrecked with the photobucket non-sense. I was looking them over thinking I might try to edit the photobucket portion off and add the natural pics in.

    Anyway just kind of browsing through the posts and looking over a Pacemaker thread. And the op has some really good pics of two crossfeed nuts with something in the middle. He calls it an adjusting piece. Now I can't see enough to make out exact operation, but I'm thinking it must work inline with the original idea I was considering.

    Not sure if the "adjusting piece" is tapered or what. But I think it must drive the two cross feed nuts apart. You can have a peak here:
    Our new American pacemaker lathe - Ongoing cleanup.

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  21. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by texasgunsmith View Post
    Funny coink-ee-dink.

    I've been slowly and casually back tracking pages of threads for interesting rebuilds etc for this link:
    Major Rebuilds, Repairs, & Info Per Manufacture

    Some of which are kind of wrecked with the photobucket non-sense. I was looking them over thinking I might try to edit the photobucket portion off and add the natural pics in.

    Anyway just kind of browsing through the posts and looking over a Pacemaker thread. And the op has some really good pics of two crossfeed nuts with something in the middle. He calls it an adjusting piece. Now I can't see enough to make out exact operation, but I'm thinking it must work inline with the original idea I was considering.

    Not sure if the "adjusting piece" is tapered or what. But I think it must drive the two cross feed nuts apart. You can have a peak here:
    Our new American pacemaker lathe - Ongoing cleanup.

    On page 28 of this American Pacemaker pdf I found on vintagemachinery.org it shows a drawing of that center piece between the cross feed nuts.
    Here is the link in case you want to zoom in on it. Page 28.
    http://www.vintagemachinery.org/pubs/1004/21669.pdf

    The photo is of the cross slide nut on an American pacemaker. Page 28 on the pdf link above.
    The two larger bolts hold the two bronze nuts. The center bolt pulls up the wedge. Appears to be a wedge on one side. Thank Greg Menke for posting the parts manual on VM.ORG.
    20201002_194707.jpg

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  23. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by mllud22 View Post
    On page 28 of this American Pacemaker pdf I found on vintagemachinery.org it shows a drawing of that center piece between the cross feed nuts.
    Here is the link in case you want to zoom in on it. Page 28.
    http://www.vintagemachinery.org/pubs/1004/21669.pdf

    The photo is of the cross slide nut on an American pacemaker. Page 28 on the pdf link above.
    The two larger bolts hold the two bronze nuts. The center bolt pulls up the wedge. Appears to be a wedge on one side. Thank Greg Menke for posting the parts manual on VM.ORG.
    20201002_194707.jpg
    You rock. That's awesome.

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    20201002_194707.jpgNot questioning anybody elses ability to read the drawing , is this the correct reading of the wedge section.
    Sloppy use of the paint program to highlight..
    The screw hole that goes through the wedge section would be larger to allow adjustment. ??

    The wedge bolt would be shorter to adjust. That's not the same as the pictures in the old thread you posted.

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    I missed the block that the head of the wedge tightening bolt pushes against.
    That section is two pieces.

  26. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by mllud22 View Post
    20201002_194707.jpgNot questioning anybody elses ability to read the drawing , is this the correct reading of the wedge section.
    Sloppy use of the paint program to highlight..
    The screw hole that goes through the wedge section would be larger to allow adjustment. ??

    The wedge bolt would be shorter to adjust. That's not the same as the pictures in the old thread you posted.
    My interpretation is, the section highlighted in red is an air gap. Bolt labeled E 200 stays fixed. Bolt E 201 is loosened. Wedge bolt is tightened to raise wedge. It removes end play by nut attached to E201 being forced away. Bolt E 201 tightened once adjustment is done.

    50.jpg

    I'm making assumptions and probably seeing what I want to see.

    But it was my first knee jerk feeling when I saw it.

    I still don't know if I'll have room to do similar. It's just awesome to me, because it validates the basic concept I was considering originally, and by another serious high end lathe of the same period we'll say.

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    [QUOTE=texasgunsmith;3634979]My interpretation is, the section highlighted in red is an air gap. Bolt labeled E 200 stays fixed. Bolt E 201 is loosened. Wedge bolt is tightened to raise wedge. It removes end play by nut attached to E201 being forced away. Bolt E 201 tightened once adjustment is done.50.jpgI'm making assumptions and probably seeing what I want to see. But it was my first knee jerk feeling when I saw it.I still don't know if I'll have room to do similar. It's just awesome to me, because it validates the basic concept I was considering originally, and by another serious high end lathe of the same period we'll say.[/QUOTE


    Quote
    My interpretation is, the section highlighted in
    red
    is an
    air gap


    ]Ya, The wedge has to have room too pull up and separate the two nuts.


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