3 - 1942 Monarch 10EE SN 13496

will gilmore · Dec 21, 2017

I traded a friend some material plus cash for this lathe. Looks like a bit of an electrical basket case but looking forward to figuring that out. I'll dig into the stickies before asking questions.

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Monarchist · Dec 21, 2017

will gilmore said:
Looks like a bit of an electrical basket case but looking forward to figuring that out.

Fear not.

MG's are sort of ugly-looking, even when fully-functional, but at the end of the day, the cheapest and easiest to restore of all 10EE.

We need to see what's in the belly, but from the build-date hopefully a "piggyback exciter" MG and not the "inline" one with the tighter-fitting bed casting.

If so, it won't be hard to put back to OEM to where a 7.5 HP or better RPC will run it near-as-dammit as-new.

There's a fully working, if somewhat grubby, piggyback MG sitting surplus here, one more set of potentiometers than I've already promised-out, and Cal, 9100 Bill, and others can walk you through OEM DC panel and control switch restoral, your "ELSR" (congratulations!) included.

will gilmore · Dec 21, 2017

Thanks.

At some point soon I'm going to need to put the lathe on a skid. I looked today and I can't find holes to bolt it down. I assume I'll want leveling feet on this at some point as well. What am I missing?

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Cal Haines · Dec 21, 2017

Let's see some overall photos of the machine. Also need to see inside the DC control panel, to the right of the spindle motor. I can see the back of the DC panel in your photo of the spindle motor.

Looks like your machine had a flat-belt drive. Someone has modified the pulley to take an automotive serpentine belt. You need a new belt for the exciter, which is the thing that's on top of the M/G (motor/generator), under the tailstock.

10EEs are set up to use three points of support. One under the tailstock and two under the headstock. There are cored holes in the casting for leveling feet. Look near the outsides, within 6 inches of the headstock end of the casting. The tailstock hole is within 3 inches of the end of the casting, near the center and under the MG. Holes are about 5/8" ID.

Cal

Monarchist · Dec 21, 2017

will gilmore said:
I looked today and I can't find holes to bolt it down. I assume I'll want leveling feet on this at some point as well. What am I missing?

One pad, TS end offset toward OVERALL, not local, centre-mass (front).
Two flat pads, HS end. All three have nominal 5/8" casting-cored holes.

One at HS may come up right at the rear side HS end of the motor mounting plate. I moved it/made a new hole only slightly different location to clear the plate.

Being as-cast holes, they are tapered. I used-up a Silver & Deming drill, (grabbed and BENT..) plus one to overbore my three to a uniform 3/4".

At each point, a 3/4" bolt, hex head DOWN, protrudes through a Northern Tool 3300 lb rated 8-bearings-as-wheels skate.

The topside gap in the C-channel body is fitted with a linen-bakelite plate. Several heavy washers and a pair of jam nuts allow letting the weight rest on the skates, ELSE see the head of the bolt jacked down onto the top of a separately emplaced steel "scotch" block positioned between the axles.

When I need to move the 10EE, change angle, or rotate it in its own length, I "pre-aim" the skates by short lift with a garage mechanic's trolley/floor jack. Or my 'toe' jacks.

Works for me.

That 10EE had arrived here, same holes used for through-bolts to a stout 2" dimensional, not 2" nominal pallet.

I cannot recommend lag screws. Present-day "farmed" timber is too coarsely-grained, so they split easily. Carriage bolts or machine bolts, and good washers, rather.

will gilmore · Dec 23, 2017

I cleaned off some grime to investigate the bolt down holes. I found some on the underside but they don't go through to the topside.

TS end:

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TS end underside:

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HS end:

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HS end underside (back):

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Oddly the hole isn't in the pad.

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Electrical:

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Bonus parts in chip tray!

Monarchist · Dec 23, 2017

will gilmore said:
I cleaned off some grime to investigate the bolt down holes. I found some on the underside but they don't go through to the topside.

My one September, 1942 #17120 certainly did - I "halfvastreamed" them to 3/4" with a Silver & Deming and ruined one drill when I shudda been using a castings core drill but didn't have one over 5/8" handy.

Early cleanup era, grubbiness, brushes & such still in the cavity:

TS end:

View attachment 215955

and HS end:

View attachment 215953

View attachment 215954

You can barely see the orange-painted Northern Tool bearing-skates with their shop-fabbed linen-bakelite sabots. The 3/4" bolts will be shortened!

NB: Location probably isn't uber-critical, but staying within the cast-in pad area even if not centered on it, is probably as wise for reducing risk of tip-over as it is for carrying stress the best way.

My two at HS end are OFF the pad, to the rear, longer "wheelbase" if you will.

Access for adjustment drove that, plus .. my 10EE has shed around 150 lbs in the change to Parker-SSD drive, even with the boost transformers and ripple filter mass added back to where the MG once lived.

HTH

will gilmore · Jun 21, 2018

I'm getting ready to drill three holes for bolts to hold down to a skid. On the headstock end, the cast holes (which are only halfway through from the bottom) are in the pry bar pocket rather than in the pad. I plan on using these for some kind of feet at a later date. I think the pad is under the mounting plate for the spindle motor so getting there would take some doing. I guess I answered my own question. Stock location it is!

Monarchist · Jun 21, 2018

will gilmore said:
I'm getting ready to drill three holes for bolts to hold down to a skid. On the headstock end, the cast holes (which are only halfway through from the bottom) are in the pry bar pocket rather than in the pad. I plan on using these for some kind of feet at a later date. I think the pad is under the mounting plate for the spindle motor so getting there would take some doing. I guess I answered my own question. Stock location it is!

They may be packed with debris, but as-cast, they went all the way through. As mentioned several times on PM, they are tapered. A casting "core" drill- which looks a first-cousin to a reamer if you haven't used these - is the proper item for opening those up to straight sided and larger diameter. I ruint one S&D out of three holes, so those can work, but with care as they want to grab. One did. The Scintilla-Bosch drill motor was taking no prisoners.

End of the day, I had 3/4" bores for the stouter bolts, and less side-play or wobble that 5/8" bolts in the tapered bores wudda produced.

It was worth it "to me", as I back-off the nut bearing against the skate, and jack the bolt-head down onto a steel plate for operating the 10EE. Load the skate, unload and aside the plate to move it. Tedious wrenching, three points- I actually lift them with a jack to make it easier.

Still, mobile or fixed and amenable to leveling when need be - all with but three skates, three bolts, 12 hex nuts, IIRC 9 washers.

YMMV

will gilmore · Jun 21, 2018

I'm 99% sure they are not cast through. I can't find any evidence of any of the three on the top surface. In other news, I can't find the lift points in the chip tray.

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Monarchist · Jun 21, 2018

will gilmore said:
I'm 99% sure they are not cast through. I can't find any evidence of any of the three on the top surface. In other news, I can't find the lift points in the chip tray.

We may not be talking about the same holes, then. I workedtwo of my three off existing core holes from the top. I made a choice of a new location HS end, backside, to get out from under the edge of the motor mounting plate., so that one was a "virgin" bore.

Simple as it wudda been, I didn't even think to slide an ignorant mirror under the base until afterwards!

will gilmore · Jun 21, 2018

Monarchist said:
We may not be talking about the same holes, then. I workedtwo of my three off existing core holes from the top. I made a choice of a new location HS end, backside, to get out from under the edge of the motor mounting plate., so that one was a "virgin" bore.

Simple as it wudda been, I didn't even think to slide an ignorant mirror under the base until afterwards!

I think we are talking about the same holes. On your lathe, HS end backside is the hole cast through?

Monarchist · Jun 21, 2018

will gilmore said:
I think we are talking about the same holes. On your lathe, HS end backside is the hole cast through?

There is one "As Far As I Know", but it is under the motor plate. The plate is also a 3-point mount on the "Round Dial" MG -era, so has a diagonal cut-away, "front" side, HS end.

Per the old post with photos, this thread, #7, those are where I put my holes. Around 4 to 6 inches "aft" of the centre of the cast-in pads

Take note - the one at front, HS end came out right next to the edge of the flat pad. I had to use a small-diameter spacer above the skate so as to not get into a tilted condition.

Bottom line - SURVEY your one and plan the holes a bit better than I had done on MY one. Mebbe cut or open-up a hole in the motor mounting plate so a to stay centered on the pads?

I didn't figure it mattered all that much, what with having shed a coupla hundred lbs Avoir. net-net, when swapping-out MG unit & DC Panel for Parker-SSD drives, isolation transformers, ripple-filter, and such.

That's no reason you cannot do a better job on your one than I did on mine.

will gilmore · Jun 21, 2018

Fair enough. I'm a bit pressed for time to get this on a skid. I'm going to stay in the pry bar area but I'll be drilling from the top (at least for the HS end) so I may relocate a bit. Thanks for the advice. I can't wait to work on this thing rather than working on moving it.

Monarchist · Jun 21, 2018

will gilmore said:
Fair enough. I'm a bit pressed for time to get this on a skid. I'm going to stay in the pry bar area but I'll be drilling from the top (at least for the HS end) so I may relocate a bit. Thanks for the advice. I can't wait to work on this thing rather than working on moving it.

You have another option, too, since it is a move, not for leveling.

There is enough space, HS end to bolt through the exposed azure just aft of the motor plate. Just put a pair of short steel bars across the top to bridge the opening, run the hold-down bolts through holes in each of two bars.

Big Box HRS heavy "U" channel, easily drilled "wherever". angled a tad for ease of alignment, and re-usable, next tasking, is wot I stock for that.

will gilmore · Jun 21, 2018

I assume azure refers to the "window" in the casting.

Monarchist · Jun 21, 2018

will gilmore said:
I assume azure refers to the "window" in the casting.

Yep. Mea Culpa.

Got meself "conditioned" to that use as to the "openings" in ring, earring, pendant, bracelet mountings and their fine finishing with "thrumming cord".

gustafson · Jun 21, 2018

Not to be contrary, but the idea of bolting it down with through holes is that it would be easy

4 12 inch lengths of 2x4 with 2 lag screws into the pallet[think of hold downs on a milling machine] and a pair of HF ratchet straps over the bed and you are home
maybe some cleats in case you are worried about it sliding around
why fuss over drilling holes you don't need

Monarchist · Jun 21, 2018

gustafson said:
Not to be contrary, but the idea of bolting it down with through holes is that it would be easy

4 12 inch lengths of 2x4 with 2 lag screws into the pallet[think of hold downs on a milling machine] and a pair of HF ratchet straps over the bed and you are home
maybe some cleats in case you are worried about it sliding around
why fuss over drilling holes you don't need

May as well just use double-sided tape, drywall screws, and a coupla bungee cords, then.

Two-by fours will split before 2" drywall screws will fail.

Not as if a 10EE actually had any MASS to it to generate a shock load off the back of inertia, is it?

gustafson · Jun 22, 2018

Monarchist said:
May as well just use double-sided tape, drywall screws, and a coupla bungee cords, then.

Two-by fours will split before 2" drywall screws will fail.

Not as if a 10EE actually had any MASS to it to generate a shock load off the back of inertia, is it?

Dont be a fool

the pallet is made of what?

Oh yeah, 2x4s

And individual ratchet strap is rated at what multiple of a EE weight?

3 - 1942 Monarch 10EE SN 13496

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