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3D printed 10ee change gears

whateg0

Aluminum
Joined
Mar 24, 2009
Location
Wichita, KS
I've been thinking about the change gears needed to cut metric threads on my square dial. I know I can buy the set, and someday, I might, but it's a lot of money at the moment. I've seen 3d printed change gears used on lighter machines, and they seem to be okay. Any imprecision is lost by the time it is tranlated into z movement. I suppose if it was a concern, I could do what I often do to speed getting the fit right - get close, then chase with a die. My worry on the 10ee is that there are a lot of downstream parts and the carriage is a lot heavier than that of a SB10, for example. Is that too much to ask of a set of plastic gears?

Dave
 
I think you will be surprised just how much force is transmitted through a 10EE gear train. But do it, take pictures, and report back. Personally, I think you are going to have a fun time with the compound gear for a number of reasons. Keyways should be great learning curve on the smaller gears, too. ( once they're loaded )

Of course, modelling an actual, good Involute to model a gear with might be interesting for you, too. And then translating that into model to be used by a printer ( STL ) means losing even more... At that point, if one is worried about accuracies at all, they're out the window at that point.

I'm not saying it can't be done. It can, it has, and I've even done it, myself. ( not for a 10EE, mind you ) But people tend to lie to/kid themselves about the important parts of the exercise, most times.

After you've done it, and if you decide you just cannot justify the cost, let us know if you want me to check and see if we might have any seconds that were rejected for cosmetic reasons laying about. Might be willing to offer them at a discount to someone in need. Not saying that any exist. Just saying that I might be willing to look and see.

Good luck. Let me know if we can help.
 
...Good luck. Let me know if we can help.

Thanks. I have seen your gears in person and they are a work of art.

I certainly know that there will be inaccuracies in the tooth profile. Even modeling a true involute doesn't translate to such in the final print as STL is all triangles. If the end result got me a part that I could run a metric die over to chase the threads on, I'd be pretty happy. I don't know why the compound gear would be any more difficult than any of the others, especially if it's all printed as one part. I do agree, though, that the load might be too much, which is why I asked the question. I will probably try it just to see how badly it performs. Maybe it will surprise me and work incredibly well. I'm not expecting it to be perfect, though.

Dave
 
Thanks. I have seen your gears in person and they are a work of art.

Well, thank you. I'm flattered but wouldn't go that far. I like to think they are made with attention to detail, skill, and perform as advertised. :)


I don't know why the compound gear would be any more difficult than any of the others, especially if it's all printed as one part.

Oh... I think you will once you get to making and assembling it. :cool: There are some things you are going to have to accommodate for and figure out. BTDT-HTTS. It is not as simple as "make a kinda gear looking thingy and slap some bearings from china-spin into it".


I do agree, though, that the load might be too much, which is why I asked the question. I will probably try it just to see how badly it performs. Maybe it will surprise me and work incredibly well. I'm not expecting it to be perfect, though.
Dave

Having a fair amount of experience with professional 3D printing and materials, some mild experience with hobby level printing and materials, and a few days experience in making gears, I will predict that you will be reexamining your options. ESPECIALLY when it comes to the smaller gears. :rolleyes5:

However, far be it from me to deny someone a good time with making things, nor deprive them of knowledge gained through experience. Like I wrote earlier - I positively think you should do it. Although, if all you want to do is a few threads, then why not just look for a used die head? Probably cheaper in the long run. Certainly easier.
 
...There are some things you are going to have to accommodate for and figure out...

...why not just look for a used die head? Probably cheaper in the long run. Certainly easier.

Cheaper and easier has never stopped me from doing something foolish! I do a lot of things that I suspect won't work just to see what I can learn from it. I think that's worth a lot.

I do have a set of metric dies. But I'd rather have the ability to single-point them. In the past, metric was an oddity for me, but it is coming up more often lately, and I suspect that trend will continue. Even single-pointed, though, I often chase them with a die as it's far faster than getting thread wires out and measuring them.

I don't doubt there will be things to be tweaked. Even on stuff designed from the ground up, that's often the case. Fitting something to an existing machine, that's almost always the case. I'm not scared of that.

Thank you for your insight, though. I am not disregarding what you say at all.


Dave
 
I suspect if you use the right materials and tweak the design to suit the material you might get some gears that are suitable for light use but they won't be on a par with the OEM units.

Also, in every instance where I've seen plastic gears (phenolic in Maximats) used in lathes they always were built using a metal hub.
 
I was thinking 16DP gears, but forgot that to get the size down to something manageable (and that fits in the space provided), 32DP is preferred. Printed gears of that fine of a pitch are probably not going to work well.

Dave
 
If you know the dimensions and diametral pitch, why not just buy stock Boston gears if available? Modify as needed to fit. Not sure I would trust printed gears.

Never seen the inside of a 10EE? :) It's rhetorical, and playful. If commodity gears existed in such configurations, we would never have gone to the trouble of making the kits we do, only to offer them at the pricing we do. Show me anywhere else one can buy the number of custom made gears, made with same or better quality, at the price they're offered and I'll buy you a doughnut. More to the point, we'd not have as many customers with sets of their own. ( A fairly significant number of which are on this forum. )
 
If you know the dimensions and diametral pitch, why not just buy stock Boston gears if available? Modify as needed to fit. Not sure I would trust printed gears.

The cavity in which the change gears go on a 10EE is rather small. To put a 127 tooth gear within the space, requires use of 32 Diametral Pitch gears. Boston does not make a 127 tooth 32 DP gear.

In the past there has been discussion of approximating metric threads using a 53 tooth gear coupled with a 60 tooth as the transposer (rather than a 127 tooth coupled with a 60 tooth). This produces a low basic error of "0.016 percent (15 of the 21 standard and 23 standard/model-maker's pitches), with an average error over all standard/model-maker's pitches of 0.054 percent."

I have not been able to find a post that shows evidence of completing the build and test of such a set of metric change gears.

https://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/monarch-lathes/10ee-60-53-transposer-pitches-100320/

I was thinking 16DP gears, but forgot that to get the size down to something manageable (and that fits in the space provided), 32DP is preferred. Printed gears of that fine of a pitch are probably not going to work well.

Dave

The link above hypothesizes using Boston Gear Works 16 DP 14-1/2 PA change gears to make the quadrant (60 tooth), transposer (53 tooth) and spur gears.

If you find the error acceptable, you could try 3D printing this approach as the teeth profiles would be larger.

Ryan
 
Never seen the inside of a 10EE? :) It's rhetorical, and playful. If commodity gears existed in such configurations, we would never have gone to the trouble of making the kits we do, only to offer them at the pricing we do. Show me anywhere else one can buy the number of custom made gears, made with same or better quality, at the price they're offered and I'll buy you a doughnut. More to the point, we'd not have as many customers with sets of their own. ( A fairly significant number of which are on this forum. )

I certainly appreciate that companies like yours and previously another shop have been willing to make these sets for a relatively small market (certainly not a commodity level item). If my 10ee were in a working shop, making profit rather than just making a few parts here and there for my other hobbies, I could see buying a set of your gears.

From the "this is fun" perspective, I have also considered 3D printing a set of gears or CNC machining a set from aluminum as I have access to several hobby level 3D printers and some small desktop CNC mills.

Ryan
 
Never seen the inside of a 10EE? :) It's rhetorical, and playful. If commodity gears existed in such configurations, we would never have gone to the trouble of making the kits we do, only to offer them at the pricing we do. Show me anywhere else one can buy the number of custom made gears, made with same or better quality, at the price they're offered and I'll buy you a doughnut. More to the point, we'd not have as many customers with sets of their own. ( A fairly significant number of which are on this forum. )

Nope, never seen 10EE gears, considering OP was thinking of printing in plastic I assumed they were just plain gear, apparently not. But if you notice, I also used the qualifier of "if available":)
 
...


The link above hypothesizes using Boston Gear Works 16 DP 14-1/2 PA change gears to make the quadrant (60 tooth), transposer (53 tooth) and spur gears.

If you find the error acceptable, you could try 3D printing this approach as the teeth profiles would be larger.

Ryan

That's not a bad idea. It would allow me to test out the 3D printed gears.

Dave
 
Boston does not make a 127 tooth 32 DP gear.

Nope. However, there _is_ a place that routinely makes 127T gears, to order. Any Pitch. Module or Diametral. To order. Fairly commonly, as far as such things go. They make a lot of Non Standard types of Gears, all the time. Even Skew Bevels. :cool:

SKEW-BEVEL-GEAR-1.jpg
 








 
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