‘42 round dial MG diagnostic help - Page 4
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  1. #61
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    Looking at the main motor starter and wondering why two wires disappear into headstock. Wanted to know where they went so other than looking into top there is a small round plate screwed into headstock housing just left of MS housing. I pulled the plate and voila, another switch that looks awfully similar to the one that is right next to the overload button. Which also protrudes from cover of MS housing. Has 3 positions and I assume it’s the drum switch on the wiring diagram. Why are there 2? If it’s not a drum switch, what is it and why no way to control it(at least manually)

  2. #62
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    Also, I want to remove bed, gearbox, and headstock should I do this individually or can I do it all at once? The motor starter housing looks like it is attached to bed and other than those wires going into headstock, looks as if it can stay whole right where it is with the removal is a few screws. True?

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fourierseries View Post
    Also, I want to remove bed, gearbox, and headstock should I do this individually or can I do it all at once? The motor starter housing looks like it is attached to bed and other than those wires going into headstock, looks as if it can stay whole right where it is with the removal is a few screws. True?
    You could be getting ahead of yourself?

    10EE parts need pre-positioned support and/or lifting and "asiding" arrangements.
    Die carts, skyhooks, blocking for lowering and later raising the apron, leadscrew and surfacing drive shafting removed before apron (or gearbox) comes off.

    Lots more that wants a great deal of understanding from a deep dive into the posts of those many on PM who have gone before.

    Then notes of your own as you assess what you have, make a plan, then update and alter the plan, update more as you go.

    All components are heavy. Some are complex in their connections. Very.

    And they don't necessarily even have to be taken apart at all, in all cases. NEITHER of my headstocks are coming off, for example. No reason for it. Nor either gearbox if I can avoid that. Aprons, yes.

    Better to first clean thoroughly, and with NO WATER nor pressure washers, please!
    Any moisture driven into hidden places seems to find, hide-in, then rot expensive bits such as roller bearings, etc.

    I like big, cheap tubs of "Goop" waterless hand cleaner. The kind that has NO pumice or other abrasives in it.

    That softens the crud, bothers paint not much. Then a wooden carpenter's shim/wedge, plastic drywall knife, and stiff "chip" brushes and bronze-bristle hand wire brushes not much larger than a toothbrush get it down to where WD-40 or such spray - and it wipes clean. No "new" rust risked.

    Old paint can simply be 'pushed" off. No need of nasty chemicals. So far, none of the several who have bothered to have had it tested has found any lead in it, either. Not that I much give a shit at my age. Not planning to breathe it- I still have the "goop".

    Electricals: Please NOT "brake cleaner" nor "Fuel Injection/Carb cleaner"!
    CRC or Ideal electrical goods cleaners are gentler by far.

    Soft chip brush "in the DRY" before yah start takes a lot of old carbon and dirt off before ever yah spray ANYTHING at all.

    Couple of the steel conduits get wet with oil. The OEM wire's insulation doesn't care.

    Back side of the DC control box where the big contactors live, UNDER the braking resistor pack, solid wire was run inside Linen "Cambric" tubing. It becomes impregnated with oil and dirt, polymerizes and stiffens. That can hide a wire that has cracked, right at the bend where it goes through to a relay or such. Stiffness of the grubby Cambric? It can then pose an INTERMITTENT fault. And now you have a mystery to chase.

    See also failed resistors and capacitors as well as relays.

    IOW there are places where a 10EE is rugged and simple, others where it is a tad fragile and vexing.



    You will need a pair of new "A" section Vee belts. Monarch have the right ones for your Serial Number "as built". They will be tight, even with the idlers backed-off.

    The motor sits on a plate. The four feet of the motor have been individually SHIMMED to align it so the belts run true. Don't mess that up. It is a RBK of a PITA to get it aligned perfectly again. Or even just close. DAMHIKT!

    The three-point mounts under that plate are synthetic rubber. They will have perished, mushed down, and dropped the level of that plate. That's why the new belts are tight.

    New pads, belts are a tad less tight, and your idlers are needed again. The idlers will need cleaned. Their bearings will need renewed as well.

    Then there are sight glasses ... flushing and fresh lubes..

    ANYTHING that CAN be done before ANY "tear down".. should be done.

    Bst case, you will have actually run the 10EE for a while, noting what needs attention and in what priority.

    Otherwise... yah will not even know what it was you started with, nor why it is not going back together as expected... at some point in the future.. when it is "too late" to have made those essential notes.. voice recordings, like a Coroner .. and PHOTOGRAPHS.


  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fourierseries View Post
    Looking at the main motor starter and wondering why two wires disappear into headstock. Wanted to know where they went so other than looking into top there is a small round plate screwed into headstock housing just left of MS housing. I pulled the plate and voila, another switch that looks awfully similar to the one that is right next to the overload button. Which also protrudes from cover of MS housing. Has 3 positions and I assume it’s the drum switch on the wiring diagram. Why are there 2? If it’s not a drum switch, what is it and why no way to control it(at least manually)
    There should be a lever on the front of the headstock that operates the drum switch.
    img_5450.jpg

    There should be a total of five wires. A bundle of three wires should pass through the main AC contactor compartment and go to the DC control panel, terminals C1, C2 and C3. A fourth wire goes to the AC contactor (motor starter) and the fifth wire passes through on the way to the start/stop station.

    This link explains how the motor starter circuit works:

    Cal
    ---

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fourierseries View Post
    Looking at the main motor starter and wondering why two wires disappear into headstock. Wanted to know where they went so other than looking into top there is a small round plate screwed into headstock housing just left of MS housing. I pulled the plate and voila, another switch that looks awfully similar to the one that is right next to the overload button. Which also protrudes from cover of MS housing. Has 3 positions and I assume it’s the drum switch on the wiring diagram. Why are there 2? If it’s not a drum switch, what is it and why no way to control it(at least manually)
    Are you perchance looking at the rotary "turn tab" switch that turns the coolant pump on and off? it should have a plastic knob that peeks out of a hole in the cast cover, similar to the reset pushbutton on the starter but .. relieved each side so a thumb and finger pinch can twist it by feel from a reach-over even though it is out of direct eyesight.

    One of only a very few dumb ass design flaws.

    A better place for it is on the front of the base casting, just below the drip lip, TS end - where it could be wired straight across to the pump cavity at the back wall. See square dial, Modular drive system.

  6. #66
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    cd422f01-9f68-43a9-95b6-8a56ddbb75fb.jpg
    Here is a picture. I was wondering what that knob did, since when I installed it didn’t seem to connect to anything. Now it makes sense. And the other knob is probably the Coolant switch just like I originally thought the whole thing was at first.
    yes that is exactly how it is wired(drum switch). Okay. Makes sense.
    I have disassembled the whole unit at this point. All pieces are still whole. I had removed the apron, saddle, tailstock, and taper at an earlier date. All in boxes and bags labeled and pictures taken etc. today I removed the headstock, gearbox, and bed all together in one piece. Was very simple and all of those pieces are intact no disassembly at all. ( the tach and the gearbox plate( round dial) were removed when I got the lathe and I am not sure if
    1. I have all the parts needed to put it back together
    2. I have tried to put it back and it’s very tricky but still unsure if I am doing it right
    Which is why I am replacing the gearbox and headstock and bed with my other machines items. I have looked inside both and they both look good so this is the easiest way for me not to have to struggle with the gearbox. I will one day look inside the complete one and see exactly how it does assemble and see if I have all the parts. At this point I have a bare base with just the electrical components inside. I am considering rewiring the MG completely but I don’t want to mess with the DC side. That panel is way complex. The rest of it... just some conduit with wire harnesses running here and there. Not too hard I think. I could always be wrong too.


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