'56 10EE S/N 38043 MG Journey
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    Default '56 10EE S/N 38043 MG Journey

    Purchased in November 2020 for $2630.00 from GSA auction.
    Cost for rigger to move from PA to Richmond, VA $640.
    Local delivery didn't work out, things happen.
    Cost of 3/4 ton Enterprise rental truck with towing capacity for 4 days: $470
    Cost of Sunbelt hydraulic lowering trailer for 4 days: $370
    Fuel: $60 (entire trip on I95, ~ 220 miles, was an average of <25mph. It was a long day)
    Total moving $1,540, just under 1/2 the cost of the lathe. And I still have to move it to WA state.

    The order from the District Chief,Cleveland Ordnance District (US Army) is dated 6-30-1952, the entry date is 7-17-1952, and the typed copy has a date of 5-7-53. The order sheet lists metric gears, speeds 25 - 2500, and "The machine requires special packaging and preservation."

    Lathe was sold to US Army, Terre Haute Ordnance Depot. I believe the depot closed in 1954. I found a New York Times archive November 20, 1964, dateline WASHINGTON, Nov.19 (AP) —Following is a list made public today by Secretary of Defense Robert S. McNamara of military installations in 33 states that he announced would be closed or reduced:: Storage of machine tools at the defense industrial plant equipment facility at Terre Haute terminated by July, 1966, and this function consolidated at the Defense Supply Agency center in Columbus, Ohio.

    The machine was transferred to the Defense Reutilization and Marketing Office (DRMO) 7-9-2019. The DRMO officer I spoke to told me it came from the US Navy, I assume the Naval Support Activity, Mechanicsburg PA. The property transfer document value is $8,155.00. A Document Number Disposal turn-in document (DTID) in a shipping envelope attached to the lathe lists a value of $65,495.00

    Conjecture when the lathe actually entered service.

    Lathe is wired for 220 per the wiring in the terminal box. Yea!
    Taper attachment appears to be complete.
    20210718_100934.jpg
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    Low Rez, sorry.Shows the chunk out of the bed~2" to the right of the chuck. img_20210719_211111_295.jpg

    Reporting progress may be spotty as I balance packing for two different possibilities.

    Ron
    Last edited by Cal Haines; 07-22-2021 at 05:23 PM. Reason: fix title

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    Congratulations!!

    I’m looking forward to seeing your progress reports!

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    You might check with Parfrey trucking (a trucking broker) in Spokane or try on Yesterday tractors for shipping prices.

    Hal

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    That is quite a journey, my EE went from Sidney to New York to PA where I got it and moved it to GA, and now to MI.

    I'd reommend a custom wood skid base designed for use with both pallet jacks and forklifts. Thru bolt the machine with 1/2" hex heads thru the 3 leveling spots in the base cabinet. If its going to leave your sight I would personally fully box it up for protection. Wood products are expensive currently but less than the cost of replacement parts (!!) Standard truck freight which passes thru terminals is abusive on its best day, can't underscore that enough. An LTL flatbed where its not touched except at loading and unloading is far better. Coat the bare metal surfaces with Boeshield, LPS3 or any of many of the other cosmoline-y products available all over. The wood box can mitigate but not fully protect against corrosion driven by concentrated humidity.

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    Thanks much!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shiseiji View Post
    Low Rez, sorry.Shows the chunk out of the bed~2" to the right of the chuck. img_20210719_211111_295.jpg
    That's harmless. I have a similar one out of the rear Vee.

    We are looking at the TAILSTOCK ways, though. .The TS cannot ever get there - your lathe or mine - so long as the carriage is on its own way (front Vee, REAR flat).

    UNLESS.. you intentionally remove the TS and re-position it there for an on-lathe line-boring OP to prepare for a new, shop-fab'ed oversize TS ram.

    Even so, it would not be a show-stopper.

    Otherwise, it looks as if it spent more time in "reserves" as a storage-queen than as an active worker-bee.

    So yah done GOOD!
    Last edited by thermite; 07-24-2021 at 01:07 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by thermite View Post
    Otherwise, it looks as if it spent more time in "reserves" as a storage-queen than as an active worker-bee.

    So yah done GOOD!
    Thanks. It was really a fluke to have spotted the auction, and won. I upped my bid once after a bit of soul searching, then let it ride. I think another $50 of pain and another bidder would have won. I was looking at the inventory plate, wondering if the numbers are any kind of a clue for when it was put in service.

    The real question is if the operator can develop the skills to let the machine show what's it's capable of.

    Ron

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shiseiji View Post
    Thanks. It was really a fluke to have spotted the auction, and won. I upped my bid once after a bit of soul searching, then let it ride. I think another $50 of pain and another bidder would have won. I was looking at the inventory plate, wondering if the numbers are any kind of a clue for when it was put in service.

    The real question is if the operator can develop the skills to let the machine show what's it's capable of.

    Ron
    LOL! It is a great DEAL more fun... in me Old Age .. to take a trashed machine tool.. and turn out good work..regardless!

    Especially since I no longer HAVE TO DO.. just to put food on the table.

    But that WAS the "way of it" for thousands of turners and mill hands living off underfunded companies and "War Surplus" machines back when "cheap labour" was in Appalachia rather than China. As much War ONE surplus as War Two or Korea.. and even one from the Spanish American War era, a six-foot-swing "Niles Tool Works" horizontal boring LATHE-not-mill our case, Galis, Morgantown/Westover, West Virginia, dawn of the 1960's

    A badly-worn 10EE still looks like a gift from the Gods ...compared to a WORSE worn fossilized Niles.

    Even so.. they were only 40 or 50 years old at the time.

    My 10EE's are actually OLDER by nearly double!

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    . . . to take a trashed machine tool.. and turn out good work..regardless!
    Well I'm a hack, and it is what it is. Tenacious to a fault, I'll keep at it. But I have no illusions about suddenly finding a hidden talent to quickly hone into a skill. With a little bit of luck, some of the materials will be more than chip fodder. Often the last .015 trip me up, I'm looking forward to trying the direct read dials. Maybe finish the set I've been pudding with for my Logan 820 LOL. But hey, it gives others a reason to feel good about themselves.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shiseiji View Post
    Well I'm a hack, and it is what it is. Tenacious to a fault, I'll keep at it. But I have no illusions about suddenly finding a hidden talent to quickly hone into a skill. With a little bit of luck, some of the materials will be more than chip fodder. Often the last .015 trip me up, I'm looking forward to trying the direct read dials. Maybe finish the set I've been pudding with for my Logan 820 LOL. But hey, it gives others a reason to feel good about themselves.
    A machine shop ain't the same as a gunfight.

    "Second place winner" often makes more money .. or enjoys a happier life on LESS money.

    My shop foreman / lead diamond-setter went to lunch one day with our Diamond buyer. Soon as they cleared the door, I sat down at his bench and set a six-prong quarter-grainer Diamond solitaire.

    They came back, I wandered over with a dummy service repair ticket, said:

    "Customer is complaining this stone is poorly set and finished".

    Those two went over it with eye-loupes, pronounced it perfect,"

    Well, guys, actually... I set that one myself just now. Just to see if I COULD.

    Oy! The eye-loupes came back out with a VENGEANCE.. And the same outcome.
    Perfect in all respects.

    Then.. I said..

    "Yes, but.. it took me right about 31 minutes to set it and polish it."

    "Moishe sets one same-same every 36 SECONDS!"

    Murray wasn't AWARE he clocked settings that fast, hour after hour.
    MY job to know that - and how best to turn it into bottom-line profit.

    Our employer had each of us in exactly the right roles!

    "First, comes good. THEN comes fast."

    ..or "never".. if "fast" isn't really your priority..

    "Good" is still useful - regardless.

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    Our employer had each of us in exactly the right roles!

    "First, comes good. THEN comes fast."

    ..or "never".. if "fast" isn't really your priority..

    "Good" is still useful - regardless.
    Yep. I've come to believe that Mr. Lincoln had a pretty good insight when he said "God must love the common man. He made so many of them." Even the great need the good to carry out their vision.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shiseiji View Post
    Yep. I've come to believe that Mr. Lincoln had a pretty good insight when he said "God must love the common man. He made so many of them." Even the great need the good to carry out their vision.
    Yah, well.. as "CUSTOMERS", too!

    Even if they are disagreeable painus analiatti horribilus..

    .. so long as they pay their bills!


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    Put some "lessons" in here. If it's too much story tellling let me know.

    Got the spindle moving. I "assume" moving the handle to the right is supposed to run the spindle CCW. Started turning CW so I reversed L1&L2 in the box at the back of the lathe to be sure I didn't touch L3. At least that was the intent. What I did was short L1 & L2 , and then completely fried the 50A CB in the main panel. Yee haw. Did it's job with its last breath.

    Out of stock at both of the nearest big box centers, so off I went to the 3rd. 90 min later I had power again, went back to the last thing I touched. Found and fixed that screw-up, this time using the VOM to check the work and really reverse L1 & L2. Started it up again. Handle to the right is still CW. OK. This time I just reversed the wires exiting the SPC. Now I no spindle rotation and clicks from the panel next to the MG. Contactors? And a real need for some sleep.

    Ron

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shiseiji View Post
    ... I "assume" moving the handle to the right is supposed to run the spindle CCW. Started turning CW so I reversed L1&L2 in the box at the back of the lathe ...
    Move the lever left for forward (CCW), right for reverse (CW); lot's of folks think it should be the other way, but there's a reason it's that way. Think of it this way: move lever CCW, spindle turns CCW; move lever CW, spindle turns CW.

    Reversing the AC power to the lathe won't change the direction that the spindle turns. However, you need to make sure that the motor/generator is turning in the right direction. Swapping L1 and L2 will change the direction the MG turns. MG should turn CW, when you look at it from the tailstock end. Watch it as it's slowing down to see which way it's turning.

    Cal

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cal Haines View Post
    Move the lever left for forward (CCW), right for reverse (CW); lot's of folks think it should be the other way, but there's a reason it's that way. Think of it this way: move lever CCW, spindle turns CCW; move lever CW, spindle turns CW.

    Reversing the AC power to the lathe won't change the direction that the spindle turns. However, you need to make sure that the motor/generator is turning in the right direction. Swapping L1 and L2 will change the direction the MG turns. MG should turn CW, when you look at it from the tailstock end. Watch it as it's slowing down to see which way it's turning.

    Cal
    Also, the original design of the 10EE used a fwd/rev lever to control the Sundstrand drive and there was a plate mounted that had fwd on the left and rev on the right.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shiseiji View Post
    OK. This time I just reversed the wires exiting the SPC. Now I no spindle rotation and clicks from the panel next to the MG. Contactors? And a real need for some sleep.

    Ron
    Put that last change back as it was.

    What "exits" the SPC is also what *entered* part of it!
    Copper wire thing... kinda bidirectional?



    You have but one phase.
    The controls need to be on it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cal Haines View Post
    Move the lever left for forward (CCW), right for reverse (CW); lot's of folks think it should be the other way, but there's a reason it's that way. Think of it this way: move lever CCW, spindle turns CCW; move lever CW, spindle turns CW.

    Reversing the AC power to the lathe won't change the direction that the spindle turns. However, you need to make sure that the motor/generator is turning in the right direction. Swapping L1 and L2 will change the direction the MG turns. MG should turn CW, when you look at it from the tailstock end. Watch it as it's slowing down to see which way it's turning.

    Cal
    LOL, so I undid what was working. I did look at the manual. If It said Left fo CCW I obviously missed it.

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    Update. I ordered and received a RPC. Starting the install, cascading issues. Wiring, specifically 6AWG. My detached garage is on a 50A circuit from the main with a sub. Smallest breaker that will take the 6AWG specced is 40A. I had a spare 50A I've put in but I'm not happy about it. 40 is between the middle of 30A min. and 50 max, on the shopping list.


    The L14-30 plugs I was using take max 10AWG. So have to swap the -50 over. I use the L14 so I can run a neutral and not have to run two cords for my "panel is hot" light or anything else I want 120 for. Or hardwire the RPC where I really don't want it just to get by because I'm probably moving soon and don't want to keep throwing $ at hard wiring.

    Or now that Bill set me straight on the Left = CCW rotation, hook the SPC back up for what was the orginial intent. Get it running so I can determine the condition of what I purchased.

    Side note. One of the covers has SAD on it. Could stand for Sennica Army Depot. Or some Navy acronym/initialism I'm not familiar with. Who knows? But no apparent rebuild like the one that just popped up on eBay. There is also a sticker on it indicating it's Y2K compliant. '56 10EE S/N 38043 MG Journey Someone had a sense of humor.

    Ron

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shiseiji View Post
    ... Smallest breaker that will take the 6AWG specced is 40A.
    Sort-of. Square-D QO are rated for TWO conductors per breaker terminal. Observe the grooves, left and right of the pressure screw.

    TWO (each) total FOUR of 2 @ 10 GA ( or 8 GA) to a disconnect off-panel, then 6 GA to the RPC, and you can use a 30 A Breaker.


    I had a spare 50A I've put in but I'm not happy about it.
    Basic Harry homeowner 6-3 W/G, NM-B / Romex / UMC polyvinyl "El common-o" jacketed, is good for 55 A @ 60 C per Code. 60 C is right HOT!

    THHN-2 // "W" where not crowded in too-tight a conduit, more-yet and at higher temps.

    So a 50A is harmless. 40 A is conservative enough and you CAN get a more paranoid 30 A onto the wire if you must.


    The L14-30 plugs I was using take max 10AWG. So have to swap the -50 over. I use the L14 so I can run a neutral and not have to run two cords for my "panel is hot" light or anything else I want 120 for.
    BAD MOVE, the you-think-it-is-a-Neutral on the same plug!

    Don't mix them. Pull any 1XX off the split-phase side, independently.

    It is no longer the same to the RPC (or even Phase-Perfect) phase legs as a Wye service Neutral - or as the original split-phase was.

    An RPC output is an oddly shifted Delta, relative to the single-phase / split-phase it feeds from.

    Best treated it as-if floating until you corner-ground it or such. And I DO not. I use a Delta to Wye transformer instead.

    Running worklights and even coolant pumps off 1-P from the split-phase side also reduces need for the RPC to carry as much load.... or even be powered ON at all.

    Same again a control transformer, 2XX primary, not 1XX primary run off the stiff "Mothership" pair for better independence, now or going forward.
    Last edited by thermite; 08-05-2021 at 01:42 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by thermite View Post
    Sort-of. Square-D QO are rated for TWO conductors per breaker terminal. Observe the grooves, left and right of the pressure screw.

    TWO (each) total FOUR of 2 @ 10 GA ( or 8 GA) to a disconnect off-panel, then 6 GA to the RPC, and you can use a 30 A Breaker.

    Basic Harry homeowner 6-3 W/G, NM-B / Romex / UMC polyvinyl "El common-o" jacketed, is good for 55 A @ 60 C per Code. 60 C is right HOT!

    THHN-2 // "W" where not crowded in too-tight a conduit, more-yet and at higher temps.

    So a 50A is harmless. 40 A is conservative enough and you CAN get a more paranoid 30 A onto the wire if you must.
    "Communications, it always comes down to communications." ~ Retired US Army staff puke.

    Sadly this is a Westinghouse/Eaton BR type CB sub-panel. So the capabilities of the BR CB appear to be different than the SquareD. Single wire connection slot/hole, not a twin hold-down. The 50A will take a single 6AWGstranded. Barely. I'd get solid if I could purchase less than 259' Just for reference, 4 lines into panel. Red, black, white, green. Neutral is NOT grounded per code.
    Am using the 10/4 SOOW cable because I have a pending move and don't want to throw ~%500 at hard wire or changing a sub panel to get better CB. I "could" set up two receptacles and plugs to use two runs of 10AWG to the machine panel. Smart? Spend the ~$50 for 1" flex conduit, fittings, boxes, and another ~$40 for two runs of 10AWG.

    What I had from the sub-panel to the machine panel was 10/4 SOOW through the L14-30. The neutral is only connected to the light. Nothing else is connected to the neutral.

    Machine control panel had two hots and a ground through 10AWG stranded through a L15-50 because I had it, 10/4 SOOW with 4 wires, L1 hot, L2 hot, L3 pseudo leg, and ground. No neutral

    Then I screwed up the legs because I didn't understand the 10EE control, started the re-wire for the RPC, ran into the wire size issues, and have been trying to get back out to the garage after taking the day off but wanted to respect the assistance Bill and others are offering with a reply that's taking me forever to type up. Arggg.


    Quote Originally Posted by thermite View Post
    BAD MOVE, the you-think-it-is-a-Neutral on the same plug!
    Bad commo, this isn't a work light. This is a "The Panel is hot" light. The neutral goes straight from the sub-panel neutral, through the L14-30, to an isolated leg in the machine panel, to the light. It doesn't touch anything else. The neutral is isolated from ground.

    Quote Originally Posted by thermite View Post
    Don't mix them. Pull any 1XX off the split-phase side, independently.
    That's what I have, "up-stream" from the converter.


    Quote Originally Posted by thermite View Post
    It is no longer the same to the RPC (or even Phase-Perfect) phase legs as a Wye service Neutral - or as the original split-phase was.

    An RPC output is an oddly shifted Delta, relative to the single-phase / split-phase it feeds from.

    Best treated it as-if floating until you corner-ground it or such. And I DO not. I use a Delta to Wye transformer instead.

    Running worklights and even coolant pumps off 1-P from the split-phase side also reduces need for the RPC to carry as much load.... or even be powered ON at all.

    Same again a control transformer, 2XX primary, not 1XX primary run off the stiff "Mothership" pair for better independence, now or going forward.
    So to summarize. Am using the cable because I have a pending move and don't want to throw ~%500 at hard wire and I don't think I need to change out the sub-panel to do what's needed.

    Because the max stranded for a L14-3 is 10AWG (EDIT as in the L15-30), I can't get 6AWG solid in less than 250' to connect the sub-panel to the machine panel with what I have, I need to use L13-50 connectors. Swapping the L14-30/L15-30 (not using the L15-30 3rd leg, use as L1, L2, G, & N) will solve part of the problem, "but" I now have to deal with the THHN from the sub-panel to the receptacle, and the boxes I had off the sub-panel when I had to switch fro 1/2" to 3/4" EMT.

    EDIT. Figured out that 480v plugs/connectors/reciprocals are what will take the 6AGW.

    Quote Originally Posted by thermite;3792490B
    6-3 W/G, NM-B / Romex / UMC polyvinyl "El common-o" jacketed
    If Lowes has by the foot, I will do that. Thanks!

    I have both 1/2" & 3/4" EMT bending tools, but tools don't impart skill, my EMT bending skills are very close to zero, and I need two off sets to use the boxes I have. Solution? Another run to Lowes for, hopefully, a 3/4" box that won't require an off-set, a 40A CB that will take 8AWG stranded, 6-3 W/G, NM-B / Romex / UMC polyvinyl "El common-o" jacketed if they have it (or HD, will check before I blast out) and maybe a 10' section of EMT if it looks like I'm going to need it.


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