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'56 10EE S/N 38043 MG Journey

Shiseiji

Aluminum
Joined
Sep 15, 2014
Purchased in November 2020 for $2630.00 from GSA auction.
Cost for rigger to move from PA to Richmond, VA $640.
Local delivery didn't work out, things happen.
Cost of 3/4 ton Enterprise rental truck with towing capacity for 4 days: $470
Cost of Sunbelt hydraulic lowering trailer for 4 days: $370
Fuel: $60 (entire trip on I95, ~ 220 miles, was an average of <25mph. It was a long day)
Total moving $1,540, just under 1/2 the cost of the lathe. And I still have to move it to WA state.

The order from the District Chief,Cleveland Ordnance District (US Army) is dated 6-30-1952, the entry date is 7-17-1952, and the typed copy has a date of 5-7-53. The order sheet lists metric gears, speeds 25 - 2500, and "The machine requires special packaging and preservation."

Lathe was sold to US Army, Terre Haute Ordnance Depot. I believe the depot closed in 1954. I found a New York Times archive November 20, 1964, dateline WASHINGTON, Nov.19 (AP) —Following is a list made public today by Secretary of Defense Robert S. McNamara of military installations in 33 states that he announced would be closed or reduced:: Storage of machine tools at the defense industrial plant equipment facility at Terre Haute terminated by July, 1966, and this function consolidated at the Defense Supply Agency center in Columbus, Ohio.

The machine was transferred to the Defense Reutilization and Marketing Office (DRMO) 7-9-2019. The DRMO officer I spoke to told me it came from the US Navy, I assume the Naval Support Activity, Mechanicsburg PA. The property transfer document value is $8,155.00. A Document Number Disposal turn-in document (DTID) in a shipping envelope attached to the lathe lists a value of $65,495.00

Conjecture when the lathe actually entered service.

Lathe is wired for 220 per the wiring in the terminal box. Yea!
Taper attachment appears to be complete.
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Low Rez, sorry.Shows the chunk out of the bed~2" to the right of the chuck. IMG_20210719_211111_295.jpg

Reporting progress may be spotty as I balance packing for two different possibilities.

Ron
 
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You might check with Parfrey trucking (a trucking broker) in Spokane or try on Yesterday tractors for shipping prices.

Hal
 
That is quite a journey, my EE went from Sidney to New York to PA where I got it and moved it to GA, and now to MI.

I'd reommend a custom wood skid base designed for use with both pallet jacks and forklifts. Thru bolt the machine with 1/2" hex heads thru the 3 leveling spots in the base cabinet. If its going to leave your sight I would personally fully box it up for protection. Wood products are expensive currently but less than the cost of replacement parts (!!) Standard truck freight which passes thru terminals is abusive on its best day, can't underscore that enough. An LTL flatbed where its not touched except at loading and unloading is far better. Coat the bare metal surfaces with Boeshield, LPS3 or any of many of the other cosmoline-y products available all over. The wood box can mitigate but not fully protect against corrosion driven by concentrated humidity.
 
Otherwise, it looks as if it spent more time in "reserves" as a storage-queen than as an active worker-bee.

So yah done GOOD!

Thanks. It was really a fluke to have spotted the auction, and won. I upped my bid once after a bit of soul searching, then let it ride. I think another $50 of pain and another bidder would have won. I was looking at the inventory plate, wondering if the numbers are any kind of a clue for when it was put in service.

The real question is if the operator can develop the skills to let the machine show what's it's capable of.

Ron
 
. . . to take a trashed machine tool.. and turn out good work..regardless!

Well I'm a hack, and it is what it is. Tenacious to a fault, I'll keep at it. But I have no illusions about suddenly finding a hidden talent to quickly hone into a skill. With a little bit of luck, some of the materials will be more than chip fodder. Often the last .015 trip me up, I'm looking forward to trying the direct read dials. Maybe finish the set I've been pudding with for my Logan 820 LOL. But hey, it gives others a reason to feel good about themselves.
 
Our employer had each of us in exactly the right roles!

"First, comes good. THEN comes fast."

..or "never".. if "fast" isn't really your priority..

"Good" is still useful - regardless.

Yep. I've come to believe that Mr. Lincoln had a pretty good insight when he said "God must love the common man. He made so many of them." Even the great need the good to carry out their vision.
 
Put some "lessons" in here. If it's too much story tellling let me know.

Got the spindle moving. I "assume" moving the handle to the right is supposed to run the spindle CCW. Started turning CW so I reversed L1&L2 in the box at the back of the lathe to be sure I didn't touch L3. At least that was the intent. What I did was short L1 & L2 , and then completely fried the 50A CB in the main panel. Yee haw. Did it's job with its last breath.

Out of stock at both of the nearest big box centers, so off I went to the 3rd. 90 min later I had power again, went back to the last thing I touched. Found and fixed that screw-up, this time using the VOM to check the work and really reverse L1 & L2. Started it up again. Handle to the right is still CW. OK. This time I just reversed the wires exiting the SPC. Now I no spindle rotation and clicks from the panel next to the MG. Contactors? And a real need for some sleep.

Ron
 
... I "assume" moving the handle to the right is supposed to run the spindle CCW. Started turning CW so I reversed L1&L2 in the box at the back of the lathe ...
Move the lever left for forward (CCW), right for reverse (CW); lot's of folks think it should be the other way, but there's a reason it's that way. Think of it this way: move lever CCW, spindle turns CCW; move lever CW, spindle turns CW.

Reversing the AC power to the lathe won't change the direction that the spindle turns. However, you need to make sure that the motor/generator is turning in the right direction. Swapping L1 and L2 will change the direction the MG turns. MG should turn CW, when you look at it from the tailstock end. Watch it as it's slowing down to see which way it's turning.

Cal
 
Move the lever left for forward (CCW), right for reverse (CW); lot's of folks think it should be the other way, but there's a reason it's that way. Think of it this way: move lever CCW, spindle turns CCW; move lever CW, spindle turns CW.

Reversing the AC power to the lathe won't change the direction that the spindle turns. However, you need to make sure that the motor/generator is turning in the right direction. Swapping L1 and L2 will change the direction the MG turns. MG should turn CW, when you look at it from the tailstock end. Watch it as it's slowing down to see which way it's turning.

Cal

Also, the original design of the 10EE used a fwd/rev lever to control the Sundstrand drive and there was a plate mounted that had fwd on the left and rev on the right.
 
Move the lever left for forward (CCW), right for reverse (CW); lot's of folks think it should be the other way, but there's a reason it's that way. Think of it this way: move lever CCW, spindle turns CCW; move lever CW, spindle turns CW.

Reversing the AC power to the lathe won't change the direction that the spindle turns. However, you need to make sure that the motor/generator is turning in the right direction. Swapping L1 and L2 will change the direction the MG turns. MG should turn CW, when you look at it from the tailstock end. Watch it as it's slowing down to see which way it's turning.

Cal
LOL, so I undid what was working. I did look at the manual. If It said Left fo CCW I obviously missed it.
 
Update. I ordered and received a RPC. Starting the install, cascading issues. Wiring, specifically 6AWG. My detached garage is on a 50A circuit from the main with a sub. Smallest breaker that will take the 6AWG specced is 40A. I had a spare 50A I've put in but I'm not happy about it. 40 is between the middle of 30A min. and 50 max, on the shopping list.


The L14-30 plugs I was using take max 10AWG. So have to swap the -50 over. I use the L14 so I can run a neutral and not have to run two cords for my "panel is hot" light or anything else I want 120 for. Or hardwire the RPC where I really don't want it just to get by because I'm probably moving soon and don't want to keep throwing $ at hard wiring.

Or now that Bill set me straight on the Left = CCW rotation, hook the SPC back up for what was the orginial intent. Get it running so I can determine the condition of what I purchased.

Side note. One of the covers has SAD on it. Could stand for Sennica Army Depot. Or some Navy acronym/initialism I'm not familiar with. Who knows? But no apparent rebuild like the one that just popped up on eBay. There is also a sticker on it indicating it's Y2K compliant. [emoji846] Someone had a sense of humor.

Ron
 
Sort-of. Square-D QO are rated for TWO conductors per breaker terminal. Observe the grooves, left and right of the pressure screw.

TWO (each) total FOUR of 2 @ 10 GA ( or 8 GA) to a disconnect off-panel, then 6 GA to the RPC, and you can use a 30 A Breaker.

Basic Harry homeowner 6-3 W/G, NM-B / Romex / UMC polyvinyl "El common-o" jacketed, is good for 55 A @ 60 C per Code. 60 C is right HOT!

THHN-2 // "W" where not crowded in too-tight a conduit, more-yet and at higher temps.

So a 50A is harmless. 40 A is conservative enough and you CAN get a more paranoid 30 A onto the wire if you must.

"Communications, it always comes down to communications." ~ Retired US Army staff puke.

Sadly this is a Westinghouse/Eaton BR type CB sub-panel. So the capabilities of the BR CB appear to be different than the SquareD. Single wire connection slot/hole, not a twin hold-down. The 50A will take a single 6AWGstranded. Barely. I'd get solid if I could purchase less than 259' Just for reference, 4 lines into panel. Red, black, white, green. Neutral is NOT grounded per code.
Am using the 10/4 SOOW cable because I have a pending move and don't want to throw ~%500 at hard wire or changing a sub panel to get better CB. I "could" set up two receptacles and plugs to use two runs of 10AWG to the machine panel. Smart? Spend the ~$50 for 1" flex conduit, fittings, boxes, and another ~$40 for two runs of 10AWG.

What I had from the sub-panel to the machine panel was 10/4 SOOW through the L14-30. The neutral is only connected to the light. Nothing else is connected to the neutral.

Machine control panel had two hots and a ground through 10AWG stranded through a L15-50 because I had it, 10/4 SOOW with 4 wires, L1 hot, L2 hot, L3 pseudo leg, and ground. No neutral

Then I screwed up the legs because I didn't understand the 10EE control, started the re-wire for the RPC, ran into the wire size issues, and have been trying to get back out to the garage after taking the day off but wanted to respect the assistance Bill and others are offering with a reply that's taking me forever to type up. Arggg.


BAD MOVE, the you-think-it-is-a-Neutral on the same plug!
Bad commo, this isn't a work light. This is a "The Panel is hot" light. The neutral goes straight from the sub-panel neutral, through the L14-30, to an isolated leg in the machine panel, to the light. It doesn't touch anything else. The neutral is isolated from ground.

Don't mix them. Pull any 1XX off the split-phase side, independently.
That's what I have, "up-stream" from the converter.


It is no longer the same to the RPC (or even Phase-Perfect) phase legs as a Wye service Neutral - or as the original split-phase was.

An RPC output is an oddly shifted Delta, relative to the single-phase / split-phase it feeds from.

Best treated it as-if floating until you corner-ground it or such. And I DO not. I use a Delta to Wye transformer instead.

Running worklights and even coolant pumps off 1-P from the split-phase side also reduces need for the RPC to carry as much load.... or even be powered ON at all.

Same again a control transformer, 2XX primary, not 1XX primary run off the stiff "Mothership" pair for better independence, now or going forward.

So to summarize. Am using the cable because I have a pending move and don't want to throw ~%500 at hard wire and I don't think I need to change out the sub-panel to do what's needed.

Because the max stranded for a L14-3 is 10AWG (EDIT as in the L15-30), I can't get 6AWG solid in less than 250' to connect the sub-panel to the machine panel with what I have, I need to use L13-50 connectors. Swapping the L14-30/L15-30 (not using the L15-30 3rd leg, use as L1, L2, G, & N) will solve part of the problem, "but" I now have to deal with the THHN from the sub-panel to the receptacle, and the boxes I had off the sub-panel when I had to switch fro 1/2" to 3/4" EMT.

EDIT. Figured out that 480v plugs/connectors/reciprocals are what will take the 6AGW.

thermite;3792490B said:
6-3 W/G, NM-B / Romex / UMC polyvinyl "El common-o" jacketed
If Lowes has by the foot, I will do that. Thanks!

I have both 1/2" & 3/4" EMT bending tools, but tools don't impart skill, my EMT bending skills are very close to zero, and I need two off sets to use the boxes I have. Solution? Another run to Lowes for, hopefully, a 3/4" box that won't require an off-set, a 40A CB that will take 8AWG stranded, 6-3 W/G, NM-B / Romex / UMC polyvinyl "El common-o" jacketed if they have it (or HD, will check before I blast out) and maybe a 10' section of EMT if it looks like I'm going to need it.
 
Well crap, managed to delete not edit a post it took me :30 to type up on the phone. Revised shorter version.

Bill, no wire was needed, at least right now, thanks, will go off line for discussion.

SPC is back on line as I have the stuff.
Items needed to wire up it up. Going to head out now after supper to run it and will report back.

For the RPC.
L16-30 pug and receptacle are on order for the first link from sub-panel to machine panel RPC.

Am going to cheat for the machine panel to the RPC connection and the RPC to the 10EE and use the cable I have. Against code to use flex as a replacement for fixed, but neither the machine panel or the RPC is fixed, so . . . if I burn the garage down I'll let you know. Have to make 1" boxes as Lowes only had connectors. Needed for the 8AWG cable.
 
Plastic conduit is still rigid. Just easier to work with than steel EMT.

And I seriously considered it. Decided it was just dumb for maybe 24" to the RPC.

The prices for twist-lock are more mass-market competitive!

The other handy item as can be found really inexpensively is the "rotary" style disconnect operated off a face-mount fascia WITH lock-out tab.. via a 5 mm square non-conductive shaft. As little as $25 bucks each for US-made in 30 A as but one example.

I looked at a RV cable solution, maybe not hard enough.
I have some stove 10AWG thing kicking around, have considered that as an option from the machine panel to the RPV as it won't be in a place where Mr. was clumsy, now has Minerie's Disease, can lurch into it.

Small enough to mount side-by-side in the same large "Bell" box as the Hubbell outlet it can control. Or a foot worth of conduit upstream in a box of its own.
Lost part of this to copy/paste, ops. I don't recognize these, will have to take a look.

Thanks!
 
On the SPC. I think it's dead. Lathe ran, I took it up to ~1,000 RPM, down to zero, reversed it, and started getting what sounded like relays cycling I think in the panel on the operator side of the MG. Shut down the lathe then nothing. Diligently checked everything, have L1 & L2 voltage at the lathe.

My VOM doesn't check capatince,
but 1K on the ohm first climbed, but a second check was zero. Manual from Monarch was zero help on what I think I read are called contactors.

Also realized there isn't any text corresponding to the annotated drawings on operating the lathe. I'm wondering if Monarch missed sending me part of the manual.

Was surprised at the prices for capicators, way cheaper than I expected. I need to check the RPC forum on quality. Also surprised how many are listed at 330v.
 
One of my many character defects is I don't spell well, it is what it is and at times I get tired of looking things up. VA said I was on the cusp for hearing aids 4 years ago, yea yea . . . Just wasn't making the connection on the switch. Thought about it, for $10 more got the monster with the big red handle and a solid "clunk" though admittedly the thing is huge. Probably why it was cheap.
 
On the SPC. I think it's dead. Lathe ran, I took it up to ~1,000 RPM, down to zero, reversed it, and started getting what sounded like relays cycling I think in the panel on the operator side of the MG. Shut down the lathe then nothing. Diligently checked everything, have L1 & L2 voltage at the lathe.
...
What speed were you running at when you reversed? One of the known issues with SPCs on a 10EE is that a sudden change in load, like you get when the spindle is reversed at speed, can cause the MG to glitch and reverse direction. Adding run capacitors can help with that.

Is the main AC contactor/motor starter on the back of the headstock closing when you push the MG start button?

Can you hear the potential relay in the SPC close?

Cal
 
What speed were you running at when you reversed?
Zero

Is the main AC contactor/motor starter on the back of the headstock closing when you push the MG start button?
Don't know. Should I be able to hear it over the exciter motor? High frequency hearing is pretty bad . . .

Can you hear the potential relay in the SPC close?
I think that's a unintended review of the quality of my RPC. No relay that I'm aware of. Two caps, one resistor, and a warning light appear to be the extent of the contents.
 








 
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