The Adventures of my 1942 Monarch 10EE. - Page 2
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  1. #21
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    Perhaps it lived an easier life than I assumed, I'll inspect the away side of the front vee closer and see what I come up with. I want to put a longer precision ground rod in it, between centers, and check as much of the length as I can. I just didn't have any random stock/drops on hand longer than the piece I had nearby today so I started there.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Moddage View Post
    Perhaps it lived an easier life than I assumed, I'll inspect the away side of the front vee closer and see what I come up with. I want to put a longer precision ground rod in it, between centers, and check as much of the length as I can. I just didn't have any random stock/drops on hand longer than the piece I had nearby today so I started there.
    My go-to is Brian Miller for superb test bars. I have his 12 jarno I use for the 10EE's and a 5 MT for the HBX-360-BC HS, TS, and the 5 MT Alzmetall AB5/S. The # 9 BS test bars were bought used from a different PM member.

    "Precision ground stock" isn't always.

    "Precision".

    And it can take a LOT of time cleaning-up the spindle bore taper before you are ready to begin.

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  4. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moddage View Post
    ...
    New pictures for post 1
    I pasted the new photos into your posts. For some reason, the original, smaller photos remained as thumbnails.

    Cal

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cal Haines View Post
    I pasted the new photos into your posts. For some reason, the original, smaller photos remained as thumbnails.

    Cal
    Have you seen this GE MG set before, Cal?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Moddage View Post
    Attachment 311945Attachment 311946

    The taper attachment appears to be missing some things, but I'm not certain what yet. Both covers are present albeit a little damaged, one cover screw is missing, and it's all filthy and looks to be unused for a long time.
    ...
    I'm curious what clamped/bolted to that round multi-angle pivot point on the taper attachment, I haven't tried to figure that out yet, and I'm not sure the mating pieces are present, I don't recall seeing anything that would match up to that.
    ...
    Your taper attachment looks complete to me. Not all of them had the micrometer adjuster (mine doesn't). I've never seen the pivot base before. My guess is that it was for a work light.

    Cal

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cal Haines View Post
    Your taper attachment looks complete to me. Not all of them had the micrometer adjuster (mine doesn't). I've never seen the pivot base before. My guess is that it was for a work light.

    Cal
    TA was gone from my ordered December '41, shipped September of '42, but Monarch had shipped it with a TA.

    OEM worklight sprouted out of a common small octagonal electrical box, back side of base casting, HS side of the coolant pump "garage".

    Had ONE wire! Other side went to a machine screw, used the casting as the path!

    Wartime? Saved copper?

    Otherwise, it was all "Thomas & Betts", disconnect included, so fairly early, as they went away to other war work around that time. Allen-Bradley thereafter, was it?

    The '44 has the "basic" TA. Worklight sprouted out of the top of the 3-P fuse box, HS end, rear vertical wall.

  8. #27
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    OEM worklight sprouted out of a common small octagonal electrical box, back side of base casting, HS side of the coolant pump "garage".
    My lathe has a small square box with a tapered piece protruding from the top and a pipe plug in it, in the location you describe. there are wires in it that go into the main 3ph disconnect box attached to the back also, but they are disconnected. My guess is this used to be where a work light attached at one time and was removed some decades ago.

    Your taper attachment looks complete to me. Not all of them had the micrometer adjuster (mine doesn't). I've never seen the pivot base before. My guess is that it was for a work light.
    You know, I just looked at the photos in the manual and I believe you're right, the piece it's attached to I don't think belongs to the lathe originally. Good to know about it looking complete. I think there were supposed to be two knurled thumb-wheel type "nuts" on the rod that runs parallel to the bed, to sandwich the bed clamp in place. One of those is missing I believe, unless that's in the box of random stuff that seems to be mostly junk I haven't sorted through.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Moddage View Post
    ...supposed to be two knurled thumb-wheel type "nuts" on the rod that runs parallel to the bed, to sandwich the bed clamp in place. One of those is missing I believe, unless that's in the box of random stuff that seems to be mostly junk I haven't sorted through.
    Mine was missing. Bought a "replica" from member vettebob. AFAIK is is an exact duplicate save for use of Aluminum vs CI.

    Correct as to matching knurled capture/adjusters. Also a hex nut towards the end of the rod to deter running them half-off and messing up those uber-fine threads. ID that - if you have it - because of the fine thread?

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    ee14888-manuals.jpgee14888manual_address.jpgee14888newmanualspeeds-feeds.jpgee14888_spindlebearings.jpg

    Here's both the manuals I have side by side, two generations of logo present. The older tattered one has a hand written address on the inside cover page "1947 Oak Ave" I've never seen that address anywhere relating to Monarch Tool Co. in my searching of company info on google. Must be the original address?

    The newer replacement manual is in near mint condition, and the first thing you're greeted with inside is a Monarch published booklet "Speeds and Feeds for Better Turning Results" copyright 1954, appears to have been printed in 1955.

    The "blueprint" for Monarch Part No. EE-2186, Detailing replacement spindle bearings.
    The picture is a little small to read all the detail, so:

    The Center part reads,
    "Note:-
    One complete set of bearings wrapped together for shipping consists of the following:-
    1 Each of QN20212DTX5040A and Q2021DTX5040A New Departure Bearings
    1-5210X3031A New Departure Double Row Bearings"
    (I googled these numbers and got nada.

    The bottom left corner has the date 11/26/54 and reads "Complete set was Heavy Preload" under "alterations" The Original date listed on this "drawing" is 4-4-40.

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    coolant_pump_note.jpgcoolant_pump1.jpgcoolant_pump2.jpg

    Hand written note(receipt maybe?) with the part number and serial number of my coolant pump, made by Pioneer Engineering in Detroit MI. Also has a reference to Wigglesworth Machinery Co. and Monarch Tool Co. as well as my lathe serial number and is dated 8/28/45. I'm not sure if this was a replacement coolant pump, or if it didn't have a coolant pump installed until 1945. I'm guessing replacement pump, because there is a part number "EE-29-1-1" for "Pump and Piping" listed on the original build sheet.
    And the tag for the coolant pump was in the same envelope as the note.


    Speaking of build sheets. Here's mine. Can someone better at deciphering these than I am explain/elaborate what "Metric Trans Quad" refers to? Based on the way other things are listed in non-bold text as sub-assemblies/pieces of something in bold, it's got me wondering if my machine is supposed to have a separate metric quadrant gear? or maybe the quadrant gear in it is for metric threading?
    I'm not too sure how to interpret that, and when I searched for "Metric Trans Quad" or similar, I got basically nada. There's mention of "Metric Trans Rev. Shaft" under the Headstock section too. My gearing looks (visually) nothing like the metric change gears I've seen elsewhere on the forum, as far as I can tell it's all standard/inch gearing, and the threading selector plate is all in inch also.
    Just not sure if there was some special quadrant gear this originally had that allowed you to swap one gear and thread metric also or what. I've not been able to uncover anything about that despite lots of googling and scouring threads on here about round dials and metric.
    14888-lathe-record.jpg

  12. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moddage View Post
    Just not sure if there was some special quadrant gear this originally had that allowed you to swap one gear and thread metric also or what. I've not been able to uncover anything about that despite lots of googling and scouring threads on here about round dials and metric.
    I don't pay a lot of attention to Metric transposing goods, as my "third 10EE" is an inherently metric/Inch Cazenuve HBX-360-BC, with the "special apron", so the go-to for metric for-sure, inch only maybe - so long as I still have a 10EE under roof.

    But.. I do recall mention in a PM thread that whilst the newer square-dial 10EE were overall BETTER than round-dials for threading, the round-dial gearing arrangement made it faster to install or remove the transposing gearing. Very nealry 100% of my metric goods need is automotive related, so parts-bin serves, no real need to single-point much of anything, either "tribe".

    PM members IN the "toothed wheel" bizness have made full sets, present-day, and lovely work they are. Fairly priced as well, but present-day fairly priced, not 1940's cost-basis! You can do this if you need to do, IOW.

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    I donít presently have a need for metric threading, I was just trying to figure out if this machine had transposing gears with it from the factory or if those line items are meaningless since there is no part number next to them. I have a random gear press fit on a shaft that was loose in a box, but the pitch doesnít match up with the end gearing on my round dial, so I donít think it belongs. Unless it goes internally somewhere and was a replacement or replaced part, but thatís purely speculation. Itís an 80T Boston gear and is mated with a shaft about 4Ē long or so if I remember correctly. I havenít been able to identify it in any of the photos in my manual or photos of gearboxes opened up on these forums, so Iím inclined to think it doesnít belong, but it was with all the other random crap that had the bed clamp and carriage stop in it so who knows.


    Edit: how many lathes do you own!? Are 10EEs the gateway lathe to ending up owning a bunch more? Should I be worried?

  14. #33
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    Edit: how many lathes do you own!? Are 10EEs the gateway lathe to ending up owning a bunch more? Should I be worried?

    It's nothing to worry about. Just start planning a bigger shop.

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    The build sheet is very cool. I would interpret it as a list of parts included, so those without hand-written notes were not included. Probably standard items did not get notes, only special items.

    Quote Originally Posted by Moddage View Post
    Edit: how many lathes do you own!? Are 10EEs the gateway lathe to ending up owning a bunch more? Should I be worried?
    Actually, it is not a problem until the grandkids come to visit, then it gets a bit crowded.

    img_1017.jpg

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    Quote Originally Posted by mllud22 View Post
    It's nothing to worry about. Just start planning a bigger shop.
    sounds like a plan.

    Quote Originally Posted by rimcanyon View Post
    The build sheet is very cool. I would interpret it as a list of parts included, so those without hand-written notes were not included. Probably standard items did not get notes, only special items.



    Actually, it is not a problem until the grandkids come to visit, then it gets a bit crowded.

    img_1017.jpg
    Dude! I want a baby lathe now... but I probably donít want to know how much those cost... I see what looks like a switch, are those functional? Clearly 10EE inspired, but Iím guessing not a Monarch production.

    Side note, is that the original color on your 10EE? Under a few layers of the ugly tan and a couple different shades of lighter gray thereís a deep dark gray with a hint of blue showing in a few spots, I assume it is the original color. Is yours original and what itís supposed to look like? Itís beautiful by the way, mine is a bit on the ugly side but Iím really not looking to get into repainting the lathe, not right now anyway, maybe some day.

    Looks like a Sunstrand drive? Based on the large hand wheel for speed control.

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    OT: Cute Lathe lathes do work They demand good money. Rimcanyon and other forum members know more about them. I cant remember the maker.

    Edit
    Manson is the maker

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    Quote Originally Posted by mllud22 View Post
    OT: Cute Lathe lathes do work They demand good money. Rimcanyon and other forum members know more about them. I cant remember the maker.

    Edit
    Manson is the maker
    This falls firmly under things I shouldnít know about... Lol

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    Quote Originally Posted by Moddage View Post
    It’s an 80T Boston gear and is mated with a shaft about 4” long or so if I remember correctly. I haven’t been able to identify it in any of the photos in my manual or photos of gearboxes opened up on these forums, so I’m inclined to think it doesn’t belong, but it was with all the other random crap that had the bed clamp and carriage stop in it so who knows.
    Chase up the recent thread on the premium TA. No gots, here, mine is the"plain" one. But ISTR the high-priced spread uses two gears from Boston gear, modified.


    Edit: how many lathes do you own!? Are 10EEs the gateway lathe to ending up owning a bunch more? Should I be worried?
    LOL! Briefly had 3 1/2. Down to 3 now: 2 X "Round Dial" 10EE 12.5" X 20" and one early production (cast, not weldment base) Cazeneuve HBX-360-BC Metric/Inch roughly a 14" x 30" that clears "close to 16" over the bedways.

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    The paint on this machine was originally close to that color, but then it got a lime green coat, which is how it came to me. I used a carbide scraper (shop-made: a triangular insert brazed into an old file) to remove the top layer of paint. It worked pretty well, the top paint sheared right off leaving the original paint and it was easy to clean up the mess (unlike a sander or grinder). The paint was not in good condition overall, so I ended up painting it. I used Krylon dark machinery grey. Even though the paint was from a rattle can, it lasts well. The secret to a good paint job is the preparation. I removed almost every cap screw and knob, then masked all the machined surfaces before painting. Krylon dark machinery grey is not usually stocked by the local hardware stores but easy to order over the internet. I can get you the number if you want it.

    It took a couple of weeks to get the paint scraped off and masked. I also did as much of an overhaul as I could, scraped the cross slide and compound, and installed a Newall DRO. I figured it was the least I could do to celebrate the 80th birthday of the machine.

    Here is a photo that shows both the original paint and the new paint. I left the apron and tailstock original.

    img_1018.jpg


    The two small lathes are a Manson in front and a Masterson in back. The Masterson has an inch larger swing and length, otherwise they are pretty similar.

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  22. #40
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    Very nice color, I'm not sure if I'm ever going to get into a full repaint on mine, it's been painted at least 3 times on top of the dark monarch grey as far as I can tell. Some spots are flaking, some spots aren't. For now, that's very much a back burner project, fixing the electrical and mechanical stuff is a higher priority than the project of painting it haha. I'll keep that color in mind, but if I do actually scrape all the failing paint off and prep this for repaint, it will probably end up some nice green color. I also kind of like "Battleship Gray" even though so many machines come in basically that color. Maybe in time I will actually repaint it, who knows.

    I reassembled the tailstock today and back on the lathe, the clamp lever repair works perfect, very happy with it now.

    I took some photos of the ways after wiping all the oil off, not sure how well they show up, but they're in pretty good shape from what I can tell. I ran my fingernail across the surfaces of them in multiple places along the length of the bed and couldn't feel anything that was alarming, in fact all but the furthest rearward flat way were very smooth to my fingernail with no detectable edges or lips anywhere. The far back one is pretty darn smooth, but I can feel some faint grooving across the whole width of it with my fingernail, similar to tightly spaced tooling marks you'd get from a face cut with an endmill, but it's undetectable to my fingertip and just feels smooth. There is some surface rust in some places on the bed where the carriage and tail stock likely didn't travel much, the first thing I did when the lathe came home last year was soak all the important surfaces/exposed metal in Krown rust inhibitor, none of the minor surface rust spots have gotten any worse so until I clean them up I'm just leaving them covered in oil/anti-rust goop.

    I also examined the wrench closer, it's definitely been broken and welded back together, it says EE-2146 on it and is quite worn at the open end, it appears to fit every main hex fastener on my lathe, or seemingly would have before it was sloppy loose, it has about the same amount of slop on everything I tried it on, compound, steady rest, tailstock set-over bolts, cross slide clamp/lock, pretty much everything you need a wrench for on the lathe from what I can tell. The 3/8" square end fits the carriage clamp/lock, and I believe the lighthouse tool post it originally came with has the same square head fastener for clamping tooling.

    I took a photo of the wrench on the bolt head of the compound with it clocked until it made contact to try and show how sloppy it is.

    I examined the rollers/bearings on the underside of the carriage today, all 4 of them aren't touching the underside of the bed from what I can tell, and only one is nice and free, two of them are basically solid and don't roll much back and forth using my finger to try to move them, and the last one is mostly free but has some resistance like the grease has gone hard. I guess I'll be replacing the rollers and adjusting them. If memory serves me right, they all should be touching the underside of the bed just a little bit, right?


    file_011.jpgfile_015.jpgfile_017.jpgfile_003.jpgee-wrench5.jpg


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