Aloris AXA or BXA tooling for 10 EE?
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  1. #1
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    I'm a newbie in the EE world. I just bought a 1959 EE with retro-fit solid-state drive, but no tooling. Which should I get, an Aloris AXA or larger BXA toolpost? Both should fit, but BXA has larger tool capacity?

    Also, what chuck should I get? 3, 4 or 6-jaw? Is Bison steel OK?

    What collet closer is good for this machine?

    Thanks.........Ronlad

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    Tooling is very personal.

    In my book, a 10EE deserves a wedge-type post, preferably of domestic manufacturer.

    Whether you opt for AXA or BXA, or even a BXA-I, depends upon a number of factors.

    The machine will accept both, but the AXA (the piston-type variant is the AX) will be towards the upper range, whereas the BXA (the piston-type variant is the BX) will be towards the lower range. Holders interchange well, within a size (AXA/AX to a competitor's AXA/AX, BXA/BX to a competitor's BXA/BX).

    Import versions of the Multifix are again available, but the holders are very expensive.

    Bison is fine, but the machine was originally supplied with forged steel chucks, and these are a good investment. The Cushman and Skinners are now made in Asia. Bison, of course, is Poland. Pratt Burnerd is England. You will need an independent chuck. A scroll chuck is nice, but a low quality scroll chuck is a waste of money.

    I like the Sjogren, and 2J collets. Others like the Monarch nosepice and 5C collets. One enterprising craftsman constructed a D1-4" collet chuck for ER32 collets, and this is also an alternative, particularly if the design is modified for D1-3" mount.

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    Ron,

    I see you are located in San Jose. We're located in the foothills out east of you, probably an easy drive.

    If you'd like, I'll invite you to visit, and get some 'first-hand' or 'hands-on' familiarisation with the tooling for our EE. There are, actually, quite a few little 'tricks of the trade', which you need to know to get good work with your EE.

    Surprisingly, you don't really need all that much tooling for the generality of work on the EE, but what you do need has to be the 'good stuff'...anyway, I'll show you, if you're interested...just give me an e-mail, on [email protected]

    Unlike Peter, I know pretty much nothing about the electricals of the EE, and, well, frankly I'm afraid of the voltages there.....but I can share some years of practical experience, making good money on small-parts subcontract work with the EE.

    (actually, we made some good money with our Monarchs cos we had a very good.....one might say 'virtuoso level'.....turner who worked with us. He did the fine close-tolerance high-finish turning work, I did inspection, and wrote up the invoices for the clients.....I can do some fairly good turn work myself, to be sure, but, well, imagine the difference between someone good enough to play fiddle with a local bluegrass band, and someone who could be 'first violin' with a major symphony orchestra)

    cheers

    Carla

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    Carla,

    While I am neither Ron, nor located in the foot hills, as a rookie in this arena I'd love to read about some of the 'tricks of the trade' for getting the most out of the 10EE.

    Can you be persuaded to write a bit? [img]smile.gif[/img]

    Best Regards,

    Adrien

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    KDK is nice. I have a 100 size on my machine and it is perfect. The only difference between the 100 and 150 is the 150 is longer front to back.

    Whats really nice about KDK is they use the same dovetail dimensions on the all the posts from 100 to 200 so tooling is interchangeable. Also the lockbar is on the side so it has a lower profile.

    Only bad thing about KDK is there is only a dovetail in the front.

    Reliable tool on ebay has been having a bunch of KDK sets lately. I picked up my 100 with a 5c collet holder, cut-off/facing holder, and boring bar holder for $76. I just won another auction yesterday for more tooling.

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    I have a BXA, since the 10EE has such power I thought the AXA light for the job. For chucks I bought a 4 jaw Cushman lightweight 8" the same model as spec'd by Monarch, and a brand new Bison 6 jaw adust-tru from J&L. It is sweet, for those thin wall parts. I made an adapter for a Cushman collet chuck to take 5C collets, and mounted it to a ebay backplate.


    My wheels don't slow me down

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    I have both AXA and BXA. The AXA I owned first (it was on the Clausing 12" lathe that I owned prior to buying a 10EE). The reason I switched isn't that the AXA is less capable or lighter weight, it was due to availability of insert toolholders. There are a lot of good quality insert toolholders available on ebay in the larger sizes (3/4") and cutting them down to fit the BXA made more sense than cutting them down for the AXA.

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    Whatever chuck(s) you put on the EE, remember to observe the RPM ratings of the chuck.
    I don't care for large diameter chucks on the EE, 6", tops, for the 3 jaw and 8" 4 jaw. I adapted a Royal 5-C handlever collet closer, and made the nosepiece. You can see it in the thread "Bells and Whistles".
    I just picked up another EE that came with an 8" 3 jaw and 6 jaw, and a 6" 4 jaw. Neither one of the 8" chucks will remain with the lathe, in fact the 6 jaw is history. I've got 5" Bison Set-Tru 3 jaw that I may put on the EE when I get it up and running.
    Toolposts- I've got a BXA wedge lock on the EE.
    Harry

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    There are a lot of good quality insert toolholders available on ebay in the larger sizes (3/4") and cutting them down to fit the BXA made more sense than cutting them down for the AXA.
    Heck - just get the ones with the 1.25" wide shanks and cut the dovetail right in the shank. Mounts right up.

    (Another vote for the BXA, here. I had an AXA on my 10EE but like the BXA a lot better).

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    I have the AXA on both EEs and find them just fine. With TNMG 200 series inserts for roughing, they cover the turning capacity of the machine with no problem. The smaller size of the AXA is better for getting into the tighter areas for me.
    http://s170.photobucket.com/albums/u...mission004.jpg

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    Heck - just get the ones with the 1.25" wide shanks and cut the dovetail right in the shank. Mounts right up.


    Great idea! Tapping them for the stop might be a problem, but a through hole or some epoxy would work as well.

    -Dave

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    Personally, I prefer the smaller AXA set for the EE, as I think its smaller, lighter tool blocks are easier to use for the light work for which the EE is suitable.

    As to chucks, I found the 6-jaw, the old genuine Buck 6-jaw, to be the most convenient for a wide range of work, particularly for thin-shelled parts.

    A good 4-jaw, one of the older best quality steel ones, preferably in the 6" size, (the 8" size is alright, just a bit less convenient to use) is a practical necessity for the EE. Just make up a suitable collection of aluminium or delrin sleeves as needed, to protect the finish on the workpieces.

    A good 3-jaw with the two-piece top jaws will pay for itself, as well. Make up a collection of aluminium and delrin soft jaw tops, in which to bore suitable 'nests' for your workpieces.

    The most important thing to remember with the EE, tho, is that the high top spindle speed can lead to seriously dangerous conditions when using chucks.

    Absent-mindedly twisting the potentiometer knob to speed up the spindle for polishing a workpiece can bring the spindle speed up to a point at which centrifugal force will pull the jaws out enough to release a gently-held workpiece.....at which point, the one of the jaws will 'swat' the workpiece, sending it travelling like a bullet in some unpredictable direction.

    Worse, absent-mindedly speeding up the spindle on an EE could, theoretically, bring a 'brand X' chuck up to the speed at which it might come apart rather violently......which reminds me of an old saying 'when the pin is pulled, Mr Grenade is not your friend anymore'.

    That 4000 rpm top speed (a seriously hazardous design error, in my opinion, except for special applications....the standard top speed should be 2500 or 3000 at most) *must*....in my personal opinion.....only be used with the 5C collet nose and collets.

    One way in which, years ago, we made some decent money on small-parts work with the EE was to consider an adjacent 14" gearhead Monarch as an 'accessory' to the EE.

    Roughing out parts 'in a hurry' on the larger lathe, leaving them, say, .005-.010-ish over, and, when time permitted, allowing the parts time to work out their internal stresses before they went into the smaller lathe for the finish work (this was especially important on some aluminium alloys) was often the most practical way to get acceptable quality work done in good time.

    (there were some parts which we would rough out, heat gently with a torch, allow to cool overnight, then chill them in carbon-dioxide snow from a fire extinguisher, and allow them to warm back to ambient before final machining.....sometimes the parts had to wait several days before the material would stabilise. few things are a frustrating as to turn/bore/thread a part, have it inspect 'good' when it came out of the machine, then warp or 'crawl' itself out of tolerance in a day or two)

    cheers

    Carla

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    I did find that at speeds over 2500, the buck 6" 6 jaw will release lightly held parts.
    I put a dab of paint on the speed knob to see its location.
    I found small bodied 4 jaw chucks best for closer tolerance work.

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    The original Cushman chucks that came with the EE were semisteel and rated to the full RPM of the lathe. I have the original 3 and 4 jaws. But my three jaw needs new jaws (2 piece) getting pretty worn.

    My main chuch though is a Buck 6" 6 jaw adjust-tru. It was basically NOS when I got the lathe and I havnt experienced and jaw opening yet.

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    I'm also tooled with AXA, similar findings on getting into tight spots with the smaller blocks.

    The flexibility outweighs the advantage.

    BXA is used on the CK 12x30 and CXA on the Model 61 16x54 [img]smile.gif[/img]

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    "I'm also tooled with AXA ... The flexibility outweighs the advantage."

    Well, in a very lucky eBay auction, where the photos were less than spectacular, and the items weren't described as best they could be, I bought TWO complete Aloris BXA-I sets, with, IIRC, six extra "I-type" holders, for well under $400, total.

    The merch was brand-new, in original boxes, too.

    In this case, cost won out over flexibility, plus I have the additional flexibility of indexing every fifteen degrees, using FOUR faces with "I" holders, using two faces with "non-I" holders, and using two to four faces using a combination of "I" and slightly modified "non-I" holders.

    Oh, yes, although not mentioned in the auction information, the two BXA-I sets came with factory-made T-nuts intended specifically for 10EE compounds, AND the optional "anti-rotation" extra-cost feature was fitted on both sets.

    A plug-and-play solution for a pair of 10EEs.

    I'd estimate roughly $2,200 (new price) in these two complete systems, one for each 10EE, for less than twenty cents on the dollar.

    And, that's less than the cost of a basic import set, too.

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    Default

    Are we allowed to say "You suck!" on this forum?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rex TX View Post
    Are we allowed to say "You suck!" on this forum?

    Yes.... but only when you are replying to nine year old threads

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    Quote Originally Posted by morsetaper2 View Post
    Yes.... but only when you are replying to nine year old threads
    LOL That's what happens when you used the search function :/

    I presume the vacuum has long since dissipated.

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    "Which should I get, an Aloris AXA or larger BXA toolpost? Both should fit, but BXA has larger tool capacity?"

    With the new XL-style turn-face tool holders, larger tool capacity is available without having to upgrade from an AXA to a BXA.

    However, I feel that the best choice for a 10EE is a BXA with a few extra XL tool holders.

    The BXA is a tad more rigid than the AXA (but the AXA is pretty good, too).

    In the past I have accommodated larger tools by machining 3/32" off of the underside of my turn-face tool holders, thereby giving 3/64" clearance from the underside of the tool holder to the top of the compound. This is no longer necessary with XL tool holders as the machining has already been done at the factory.

    I see that XL tool holders are mainly a second-tier product (Shars, CDCO, etcetera). So be it, as these second-tier suppliers are meeting a need which the first-tier suppliers (Aloris, Dorian, etcetera) are not meeting.

    Anyway, a BXA is only marginally larger than an AXA, and that marginal largeness shouldn't be a deal-breaker for most users.


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