Another "I Got A 10EE" Thread...With A Twist
Close
Login to Your Account
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 34
  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jul 2019
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Tennessee
    Posts
    13
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    2
    Likes (Received)
    3

    Default Another "I Got A 10EE" Thread...With A Twist

    Good Afternoon All-

    Yes, the inevitable new guy with a 10EE that they happened across. I picked one up as part of a package deal, and it was dropped dial side down in soft/gravel and got a little dinged up. I've attached some pictures of the lathe itself, and you can see the damaged portion on the cross feed dial assembly.

    Here's the twist. I know these lathes by reputation and respect deeply their historicity and capability, and know that I'll never make real use of it. I absolutely do not want to part it out as I want to see it run. However I don't have time and $$ to monkey with a basket case. So I'm looking for a little guidance from those that really know this lathe well, and hopefully I can get into working order so that it can go to a good home that'll care for it and use the hell out of it. If I do end up having to part it out, I want to make sure it's a organ donor that gets one of it's kin up and running. I also want to be honest with a potential buyer about what's happened with it (I don't know the details, only that it was a "soft" drop) but be able to demonstrate that it's running, and can make chips.

    It was part of a lot of machines that I bought, and because it had been dropped, and it wasn't under power, I only could evaluate the cleanliness and inspect all the usual wear points, etc. It's in amazing shape given it's been sitting, and everything turns and moves a smooth as butter, and the only outstanding issue is the cross feed.

    My uninformed plan, and I'd love thoughts from those you folks in the know, looks a little like this:

    1. Get it home and run through the basics on electrical looking for dead shorts, broken components, etc. and get it under power (I have three phase via a rotary phase converter).
    2. If it powers up, I'll slowly test things out and get a sense of how it's running. Speed control, reversing, etc. and proceed to Step 3.
    2a. If I can't get it to power up without trying to divine the mysteries of this electrical Rube Goldberg machine electronically (not a slight on it, but they're amazingly complex and far beyond my experience or expertise with a multi-meter) and move to Step 4.
    3. If it's electrically viable, I'll work on sourcing or fabricating the broken cast iron and shaft from the cross feed. Get it installed, tune it up and take a few cuts, measure it's accuracy, etc. and find someone to adopt a running, breathing Monarch, and share the history, and hopefully it'll find a new life with someone that'll love on it for years.
    4. If it's not electrically viable without some minimal poking and prodding, I'll strip out all the reusable parts, etc. and sell them. My preference of course is to go to someone who's going to bring one back to life, or keep a beloved lathe up and running. I'm not into it for much, and I'm not trying to get rich, I just need to recoup the time and investment, and I'll be happiest if it's running or gets someone else running.

    I am sure I'm glossing over much, and potentially the damage is much more extreme than my untrained eye can take in, so please help me get wiser and ensure this piece of history lives on...even if I'm not the caretaker.

    Thank you all in advance!


    -TennesseeMachine

    20190622_141500042_ios.jpg20190622_141506733_ios.jpg20190622_141510127_ios.jpg20190622_141522329_ios.jpg20190622_141539064_ios.jpg

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Las Vegas
    Posts
    592
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    11
    Likes (Received)
    58

    Default

    there is a guy on ebay parting out a monarch 10ee. maybe you could replace the broken pieces. The ebay guy is not cheap and im not sure what vintage machine he is parting out but its worth a look. Your machine looks like a motor generator model. That means if you remove the cover on the tailstock side, you should see a motor with a generator piggy backed on top of it. these drive systems are very robust and reliable. first thing to do to get it going is make sure it is wired for 220v three phase. if you send me a private message with your phone number i'll give you a call and walk you through getting it started if you like. I dont feel like typing that much info.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    Peralta, NM USA
    Posts
    5,643
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    48
    Likes (Received)
    462

    Default

    I'd bet that was a hit from something else - a face plant always breaks the carriage feed wheel first. With an intact carriage feed wheel there not a lot of ways to take out the cross feed.

    Fortunately the cross feed screw and dial assy shouldn't be too hard to replace. I can't tell if you have a taper attachment, if so that adds to the difficulty and possible damage.

    Other than that I'd check the oil levels, grease the motor and generator bearings and see that the brushes on both ends are seated and have some length under the spring and give it some power. There's a direction indicator in the cabinet under the tailstock, make sure the generator is spinning the right way when you first crank it up. There's a slight possibility that the field generator will have to be flashed but they usually come back with their residual magnetism.

    Good luck and have fun!

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Rochester, NY USA
    Posts
    2,161
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    10
    Likes (Received)
    504

    Default

    It looks like you have a taper attachment.
    The hand crank for the cross feed will not have a screw hanging out of it.
    It is below the T/S in the fourth picture.

    I'd put the cross feed back together and see if you have any binds.

    Bill

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Arizona
    Posts
    3,599
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    806
    Likes (Received)
    475

    Default

    This thread will walk you through checking to see what, if anything, needs to be done to run it from 240V.
    10EE MG 440 to 220 Conversion Checklist
    If the machine has its original wiring, you'll need to make a simple change to the wiring of the main AC contactor to get it to work with a rotary phase converter.

    You want to be very careful running that big chuck at full speed. Very bad things happen when an 8" chuck flies apart at 2500+ RPM. If the chuck has the machine's serial number stamped on the back, it's probably original to the machine and it might be rated for full RPM. Also, if you open the jaws too much, the ends of the jaws might be able to hit the ways.

    Cal

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jul 2019
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Tennessee
    Posts
    13
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    2
    Likes (Received)
    3

    Default

    Thanks all! I pick it up next weekend, and I'll read through the checklist, and I'll PM you lectrian1 when I've got it safe and sound, and I'd appreciate the assistance getting it under power. Hoping it's relatively healthy so that it can be brought back to a fruitful life.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Virginia
    Posts
    26,736
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    7561
    Likes (Received)
    8369

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by rke[pler View Post
    I'd bet that was a hit from something else - a face plant always breaks the carriage feed wheel first. With an intact carriage feed wheel there not a lot of ways to take out the cross feed.
    Quote Originally Posted by hitandmiss View Post
    It looks like you have a taper attachment.
    The hand crank for the cross feed will not have a screw hanging out of it.
    It is below the T/S in the fourth picture.

    I'd put the cross feed back together and see if you have any binds.
    Agreed. Let's see what it actually needs.

    Otherwise: It's old and a tad dirty. So are many of us of similar age.

    - front cover not seen

    - upper HS cover not seen.

    Find at least the pieces of them if possible, but neither are show-stoppers.

    AFAIK, Monarch still supports "square dial" 10EE officially, but not as much of the earlier round-dial beyond the manual (by serial #), belts, brushes for the motor and MG, way wipers and the many other parts that are common to both. All they usually need, IOW. So that's not a show-stopper, either.

    I have "some" round-dial spares from part-outs. Others do as well.

    This one could be making chips without a great deal of hassle. We've seen far worse. We OWN some that were worse at one time.

    Waaay less-costly to repair than a geared-head with even a pair and a half of trashed gears.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jul 2019
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Tennessee
    Posts
    13
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    2
    Likes (Received)
    3

    Default

    Hey PM Crew!

    Well, the Monarch came home yesterday, and we got it moved without an issue (my handy Spanco gantry saw to that nicely).

    I've pulled the covers, taken some more pictures, and I've confirmed that it's in fact wired for 240v. Would love to know what the trick is for the AC contactor, as I'm dying to just hook it up to my rotory phase converter, and just see if it's alive. The more I look at this thing, and clean it up, the more astounded I am at how unbelievably beefy and feature rich it is. What an amazing machine.

    Below are the added pictures, and I'll read through the provided thread, and make any adjustments/tune ups before I press any buttons!

    -Tennessee Machine

    20190722_020844948_ios.jpg20190722_020844948_ios.jpg20190722_020900591_ios.jpg20190722_020911298_ios.jpg20190722_022608555_ios.jpg20190722_022657317_ios.jpg

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jul 2019
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Tennessee
    Posts
    13
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    2
    Likes (Received)
    3

    Default

    More Pics
    20190722_022708115_ios.jpg20190722_022714132_ios.jpg20190722_022811192_ios.jpg20190722_022817922_ios.jpg20190722_022622773_ios.jpg

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jul 2019
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Tennessee
    Posts
    13
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    2
    Likes (Received)
    3

    Default

    20190722_022822547_ios.jpg20190722_022851233_ios.jpg

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    England UK
    Posts
    1,812
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    758
    Likes (Received)
    741

    Default

    Damage looks very minor for a face-plant. You'll need that whole dial assembly and the telescoping shaft within. Inspection will tell you if you need the screw.
    Nice machine there and not molested. Clean the rust off the ways before you move the carriage again so it doesn't get embedded in the carriage underside.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Virginia
    Posts
    26,736
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    7561
    Likes (Received)
    8369

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter. View Post
    Damage looks very minor for a face-plant. You'll need that whole dial assembly and the telescoping shaft within. Inspection will tell you if you need the screw.
    Not the "ordinary" face-plant, if even it was one.

    Suggest getting the dial & c. assembly apart, last two photos.

    A replacement for the bustid cast stand-off can be turned from the solid, Coupla saw cuts & c. off a full-round flange will match the diamond-ish shape mount.

    I might even have one? Maynah? Was there one in those part-outs.... that i mostly haven't yet even taken out of the boxes!!!



    A new cross-slide screw and nut is usually a good idea off the back of wear anyway.

    The rest "to be determined", but no apparent long-term show-stoppers.

    2CW

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Jul 2019
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Tennessee
    Posts
    13
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    2
    Likes (Received)
    3

    Default

    Thanks for the vote of confidence gents, she's crusty, but I'm thinking along the same lines (without the experience you gents have).

    As to putting it under power there was mention of a "simple change" to the AC contactor, does anyone have the low down on that? I'm still on the path of getting the electronics sorted, and making sure the machine runs electrically before I start sourcing replacement, or creating, replacement parts for the cross feed.

    Hopefully some good news to share tonight after I hook 'er up!

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Arizona
    Posts
    3,599
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    806
    Likes (Received)
    475

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by TennesseeMachine View Post
    ...

    As to putting it under power there was mention of a "simple change" to the AC contactor, does anyone have the low down on that? I'm still on the path of getting the electronics sorted, and making sure the machine runs electrically before I start sourcing replacement, or creating, replacement parts for the cross feed.

    ...
    In the link that I provided in post 5, above, I provide another link that explains, in great detail how that works (assuming that you have the original Cutler-Hammer AC contactor). I can't help ya if you don't have time to read.

    Cal

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Jul 2019
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Tennessee
    Posts
    13
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    2
    Likes (Received)
    3

    Default

    Spot on Cal, I missed it the first time I read through, but got it now. Guess I can be helped, but I need to read twice.

    The great news is that ‘lectrician walked me through the start up over the phone, including the contactor, and we have a running Monarch! Thank you ‘lectrician!!

    Everything seems to be in working order electrically, but now I need to hunt down a replacement cross feed casting, screw, etc. to fix the only known functional issue...anyone have a bead on one they’d part with to put this lady into fully running condition (obviously happy to pay for the part and shipping). I’m watching eBay as well.

    Going to get the fluids changed out etc. over the next couple days and start cleaning it up.

    Thanks again everyone for the assist!!

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Arizona
    Posts
    3,599
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    806
    Likes (Received)
    475

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by TennesseeMachine View Post
    20190722_022822547_ios.jpg

    20190722_022851233_ios.jpg
    I'd like to see a better picture of the cross-feed dial. It looks like you might have an accumulating cross-feed dial, like this one:
    ee16238-03-accumulating-cross-feed-dial.jpg


    Those are rare as hen's teeth on round-dials and not much more common on square-dials. I would definitely want to rehab it if I were you (if not, please send it to me . . .). You might be able to braze up the damage to the body portion with the mounting ears (part E8-60). If necessary, you could sleeve the shaft bore. I've never had one of those apart, so I don't know if the body for the accumulating dial is the same as that for regular dial, but I doubt it.

    Cal

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Virginia
    Posts
    26,736
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    7561
    Likes (Received)
    8369

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Cal Haines View Post
    Those are rare as hen's teeth on round-dials and not much more common on square-dials. I would definitely want to rehab it if I were you (if not, please send it to me . . .). You might be able to braze up the damage to the body portion with the mounting ears (part E8-60). If necessary, you could sleeve the shaft bore. I've never had one of those apart, so I don't know if the body for the accumulating dial is the same as that for regular dial, but I doubt it.
    The unit is complex. Hopefully the way it was broken-off, the internal "works" might be largely undamaged.

    E8-60 - the part KNOWN with full certainty to be severely damaged - is a "passive" component, and simple. Basically a cast-Iron stand-off that can work just as well if replicated in some other alloy, not cast at all..

    If not to be found, used, THAT part can be shop-fabbed, turned and bored from the solid, and/or built-up by welding, NEW material - pointless to mess with the old debris - then finish-machined, and easily so - either way.

    Bit of luck, modest investment in sweat equity and metal, this puppy may rise again..

    ISTR PM archives already have at least one thread covering refurb OF those complex innards, so that need not be entirely new ground.

    Meanwhile, back at the lathe. a temporary cross and handle can get it into shape to "bootstrap" the making of a replacement of the damaged part should it be the only machine to-hand.

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Jul 2019
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Tennessee
    Posts
    13
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    2
    Likes (Received)
    3

    Default

    Again, my many thanks for the insight, I am a novice (if you haven't figured that out) and so threads like this save me weeks of heartache.

    Cal I'll get a couple pictures of the dial up for you today. I am thinking that if we can braze or TIG (I have a friend who has fixed cast items for us in the past) then get it up and running. I'm not going for factory purity, but quality and durability. If we can do that with brazing (remaining to be seen) I'll try that route. Take a look at the new pictures when I get them up, and we'll make a data driven call.

    Going to get the oils swapped out in the next couple days (you'd be proud Cal, I read the threads twice!) and finish the inspections and cleaning while I sort the dial situation.

    I'm just glad she's running, and not too far away from making chips.

    Thank you gents!


    -Tennessee Machine

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Virginia
    Posts
    26,736
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    7561
    Likes (Received)
    8369

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by TennesseeMachine View Post
    if we can braze or TIG (I have a friend who has fixed cast items for us in the past) then get it up and running.
    If your wont is to braze or TiG, start with steel plate and a length of "hydraulic" (heavy wall) tubing, then lathe-turn and bore for accuracy so it doesn't bind.

    No matter how skilled the torch hand, your CI remains were too badly distorted and/or too thin to begin with (the flange), before they failed to come good again alignment-wise. The process to try to make it so is tedious - read: "expensive in time" as well.

    Eyeball that part. It is 100% cylindrical work - lathe work - up until you finish it and slice the flange disk to reduce it to a sort of diamond shape and drill two holes.

    A purist could even make a mold and cast a new blank. But not for just the ONE part that still has to be finish-machined ANYWAY.

  20. Likes TennesseeMachine liked this post
  21. #20
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    England UK
    Posts
    1,812
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    758
    Likes (Received)
    741

    Default

    Since the screw is anchored on the other end there's no axial load on that broken part like there would be on many lathes. I would remove the busted bit and turn the broken end of the stem down then make a new base with a mating stem and loctite the two halves together.

  22. Likes TennesseeMachine liked this post

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •