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Thread: Another New Toy

  1. #21
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    Default Chuck and work changing

    Here is the jib crane I use for chucks and heavy work on my Sheldon lathe. It is made of 4" I beam, the hinges are blocks bolted to an I beam column and the 500 pound electric winch is on a trolley. I haven't repaired the plaster around the hinge mounts because I want to change them to allow a wider travel. The reel is a standard drop cord reel with the ratchet removed so it pays out and takes up cord as the trolley moves. The only complaint I have is that the lock on the crane that stops motion when the power is off is too coarse and I wind up jogging the chuck up and down trying to line it up. In case someone wonders, I don't use two chucks at once. I didn't want to take the 4 jaw off right now, so I picked up the 3 jaw to illustrate.

    Bill
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails lathe-crane.jpg  

  2. #22
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    Bill,
    I would like to have a set up like that, but right now I can't justify it with the type of work I do.

    The servicing of the lathe began today. This is best told with pictures.

    The 15 HP Baldor motor in its new home. Notice all the extra room with the smaller frame size.


    The 2 drains on the rear of the headstock. The one on the right is at the very rear, and I think it's the main drain, the one on the left connects to the headstock between the bedways, and I think it's a supplemental drain for the low spots.


    The end gearing has been removed to more effectively expose the oiling system. There are 2 manifolds feeeding a total of 7 meter units for the gearbox. 6 of the meter units are visible, and I'll show the 7th in the next photo. Notice the black oil slick under the spindle stud gear. There are 2 other gears on the other side of the casting, which forms a bowl next to the headstock. I couldn't find the drain hole last week, but I found it today. The 2 oil lines on the left, lube the bearing and gears.


    The 7th meter unit. To replace it, I would have to remove the shifter housing castings on the front of the headstock. It lubricates the right bearing of the C-D-E shaft.


    The front of the gearbox with the cover and rack plate removed.


    The rack plate with the tumbler attached on the right, and the backside of the front cover on the left.


    The meter uunit manifold in the headstock. Thr front tube on the left needs to be redirected towards the rear between the clutch yoke and the casting for oiling the brake fingers. BTW, the brake works great.


    Another view of the headstock. All 4 soeed clutches are in neutral. It's pretty dry in there, after the kerosene flush.

    Harry

  3. #23
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    Harry, regarding the Kerosene flush, did you run the lathe to do it?

  4. #24
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    "The 15 HP Baldor motor in its new home. Notice all the extra room with the smaller frame size"

    AND, you got the connection box (pecker-head) in it, too.

    My reading of the electrical prints says the machine was designed for 5, 7.5, 10 and 15 HP, with the one or two higher powers being 460 only, and the lower two powers being 230/460 at the customer's choice.

    The limitation, of course, is the "Size" of the NEMA reversing magnetic motor starter.

  5. #25
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    Harry,

    That looks really good inside, you have done a half century's cleaning. Do you have anymore issues with the lathe or is the end in sight?

    Steve

  6. #26
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    Yes, at slow speeds. Didn't go over 250, but very briefly. Prior to the flush the inside was cleaned pretty good.
    It's a risky decision, but the other option was just as bad. I could have set up an external pump and washed it down with the recirculating kerosene, which I consider riskier. The only effective way to clean the inside is to totally take it apart.
    I've cleaned several headstocks this way, but not the EE's, with no problems.
    Harry

  7. #27
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    The motor is rated 36A at full load. I'm using a 2 speed size 2 starter wired for reversing, and the heaters have been sized accordingly. I have to install a guard on the reserve button, to avoid the accidental push on it, as I found out last Saturday when we were testing the contactors, with the motor disconnected, for proper function. I want to go between high and low without going through stop on the #3 W&S, but I don't want to that on an engine lathe. I can only think of bad things happening. The 2 Bob's(Bob B and Bob G) gave me my options, last Saturday, and the guard is the easiest to implement.
    Bob B amp clamped all 3 legs, reading 23 amps, each, at 600 RPM with just the 4 jaw chuck.

    Other issues with lathe; won't know till I get there. I do know all the bearings in the TA need replacing.

    I do need to get this lathe up and running though. I just got done with the 4th production run of some rollers I make for a customer. I'm getting tired of pulling and pushing the TS on the CY, at least the TS crank on this one will make that part a lot easier.

    I never heard the term "peckerhead" used in the context of the motor connection box, which is what I always called them, until about 20 years ago. This "friend", who is as straight laced as they come, never used bad language in my hearing, etc, reeled off the term. I looked at him and asked, "just what are you talking about". He explained that was what electricians called it. I didn't believe him until about 8 years ago when I was in my electrical supplier's office, and I inappropiately used the term in front of his wife. Leo turned red, shaking his head while trying to hide his laughter. He knew exactly what I was talking about, and to make it worse, so did his wife; she was laughing also.
    Harry

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    "... I never heard the term "peckerhead" used in the context of the motor connection box, which is what I always called them ..."

    The electric utility folks (from which I got my yearly experience as a newly-minted EE) also call the service entrance "weatherhead" a peckerhead.

    The functional relationship with the slang terms "box" and "pecker" is all too obvious.

    My take on this is the "--- head" (whether weather-head or that other head, the male appendage one, or any other one, too) soon became peckerhead, as a unique "word of art".

  9. #29
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    Harry I am currently redoing a model 61X30 regrinding the bed etc. Now that you have the top cover off you might want to check the dog ears on the leadscrew reversing gear train to see if they have also been round off from using it to change the driveshaft direction instead of the leadscrew. It is located under and toward the front of the head. There are only to ears on each side forward and reverse and the sliding coller is the same, so when changing direction there is a lot of slack before engagment and it's easy to round off the ears. Once that happens the driveshaft and leadscrew are now in neutral or they will not stay engaged when under a load.
    There is a second oil pump located in the head stock on the back side. It resides behind that L shaped cover next to the oil fill hole, it's driven by a concentric cam which is part of the large on the rightside of the head. The pump is the same style as the other in the head with felt filter in the pickup. It is serviceable with the L cover removed.
    That other drain for the headstock drains oil from a small resevior that sits below the brake holds about pint of fluid.
    I use a Sky Hook crane to change chucks my old back can't quit handle them anymore. It mounts to an Aloris tool post works slick it will pick up #500. G'day Zeo

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    The single tooth dog clutch is good. The headstock and gearbox pumps are off the machine for servicing, and while I'm at it, the meter units will be replaced.
    I've pretty much got the crane details worked out, and will start cutting parts tomorrow.
    Harry

  11. #31
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    A couple days ago I checked prices on the filters and meter units with 2 sources. One quoted prices and the other never got back to me. I was expecting the $14 price on the meters, but I had a very hard time with 21.00 for the filters. In all fairness I don't know if the filter price was for the entire assembly, or just the felt. I decided to go a different way, and ordered the meter units from McMaster-Carr at approx a 40% savings and make my own filters. I think MMC is supplying the Trico brand, at least they look some others I ordered several years ago for my Cincinnati mill, which needed 20+ meters for the manifold in the saddle.

    In the pictures that follow, the piece of tubing on the right is the felt cutter. It's made from a piece of 1-5/16 tubing. The ID was bored to about 1.290 and the cutting edge was put on with a file, while spinning in the lathe, on the OD. The tool is twisted/rotated back and forth to cut the felt. It goes pretty quick, but the cutting edge does take a beating, and I was able to get 3 pieces cut. Could probably cut more befrore resharpening, but I only need 3.

    The gearbox pump is on the left, the headstock's on the right. The original filters are in front of their respective pumps. I used the cup of oil to bench test the pumps after reassembly. The meter unit on the left is Bijur and the one on the right, I think is a Trico. The casting is from the headstock, and has to be removed to get to the pump. It also has the oil filler port for the headstock. The felt cutter is on the right.


    A close up of the pumps and meter units.


    A close up of the felt cutter.


    The pumps have been reinstalled and the headstock filled with oil. I used Shell Turbo T68, their equavalent of Mobil Vactra Heavy Medium. I tested the headstock, and surprisingly it runs quieter, in all the speeds up to 600. The only problem I have with the oil; it is almost clear, and I have a hard time seeing if it's flowing. The oil that came out of the machine was a dark brown, and definitely of a heavier weight. Who know's what the original owners put in it. I haven't filled the gearbox yet due to future work I need to do, but the pump was tested after installation, to make sure the everything was/is working, by manually working the pump.
    Harry

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    Harry what size and weight felt did you use? I had gasket punch of the correct diameter to cut mine.
    On the sight glass you could clean the white background with some brake cleaner makes a big difference. There are some cork gaskets which seal the sight glass probable will fall apart on diassembly they are not to pricey from Monarch. G'day zeo

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  14. #33
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    I used a F5 grade of wool felt, about 3/16" thick. I think the felt should have been a little thinner, it was a bear getting the retaining ring under the keepers.
    The problem with seeing the oil is the trickle in the flow view port on the front of the headstock. The only way I can tell if the oil is flowing, is to watch the discharge point too see the drop forming. The level port on the rear isn't too bad. If the oil had some color, this would be a different story.
    Harry

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    Harry, on my 20" series 61 the oil is pumping hard and fast at max speed about 1000 rpms. I increased the motor pulley size and added a VFD and can run it up to 80hz. At lower speeds I can see it pulsing the oil out with constant flow. I remove the line to the front roller bearing a cleaned with carb cleaner. You may have a restriction in the line is why you are not seeing much oil. G'day zeo

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    Harry,

    You may recall the fit I had with my K&T with the oil flow sight glass, the line was broken and oil was dripping into it at high speed only. Have you confirmed that the line is good?

    Regarding color; put a few drops of ATF in the oil.

    Steve

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    At 600, which is the highest speed I've run so far, the oil flows good, it doesn't empty out too fast, and builds up in the port. Once I get the feel for the characteristics of the port, I won't be checking very often.
    All the lines are clear, that is one thing I make a point of checking.
    Harry

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    Quote Originally Posted by beckley23 View Post
    ... ordered the meter units from McMaster-Carr at approx a 40% savings and make my own filters.
    ...
    Hi Harry,

    I did the same thing for my 10EE, I get over 60 PSI out of the pump with the homemade filter.

    I got my meter units from MSC. They look just like yours, and seem to want a ferrule on the input end, where they screw into the manifold. I solved that problem by cutting a short piece of tubing (about .25" if memory serves) and used a ferrule. Were you able to get yours to seal up without the ferrule?

    Cal

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    The meter units may be leaking at the manifold, but it's pretty hard to tell. They are passing oil at a respectable rate, at least the ones I could see. I did have to change one from a 00 to a 0, today, on the gearbox system. There are 2 lines that go into the "bowl", one oils a bearing and the other is for the gears. I could see some tell tale traces from the bearing, but wasn't getting anything out of the gear tube. That unit got changed, and things are better. I was able to get the suction end of the pump covered without totally filling the gearbox.
    The Bijur meter unit has a radiused end on the inout, that I think acts as the compression seal, the "Trico's" don't and I think that may be the cause of the leakage problem. I think an easier solution to that leakage problem would be to put some pipe dope on the threads.
    I think I've got seal a problem on the pump on top of the piston. IIRC, there is a very small O ring in there. I may investigate later.
    Harry

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    Default Need some ideas

    On the pedastal under the bed and headstock, there are 3 doors, 2 on the front and 1 on the back. There is a gap of approx 1/8" between the doors and the pedastal that appear to have some type of sealing material that is bascillay gone. In one spot I was able to get small piece off and it appeared to have some sort of fibers in it. All around the borders of where the material was/is attached, it appears that the adhesive has run, much like Permatex #2 runs, but more freely. These seals need to be replaced. Keep in mind that I do use flood coolant, and these machines will leak oil, so the material and adhesive must stand up to the coolants and oils. I've looked in the MMC catalog, and there are some likely candidates, but I'm not sold yet.
    Harry

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    Quote Originally Posted by beckley23 View Post
    These seals need to be replaced. Keep in mind that I do use flood coolant, and these machines will leak oil, so the material and adhesive must stand up to the coolants and oils. I've looked in the MMC catalog, and there are some likely candidates, but I'm not sold yet.
    I guess that you could go "traditional" and pound oakum in there and seal with hot tar, but I'd just clean it up and run a bead of silicone caulk. Latex caulk might work but silicone definitely will as long as it makes contact with clean sides.


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