Thread: Another Round Dial Saved

I bought it, sight unseen, on eBay a couple of month’s ago. I just had to repair a couple of cracked panels, clean, strip & paint it and make relatively few repairs. I duplicated the original color. I got lucky with this one. It’s a 1943 WW2 defense contract lathe used in The Preventative Maintenance Department of Canton Drop Forge. It should of had pretty good maintenance.

What's the serial number and build date?

Your photo posted very small. Check the extension on the image file. If it's .JPEG, change it to .JPG and the photo will post full size.

Cal

Nice, Mine is also a 43', but the paint was way worse so I redid it in battleship grey... its what I had on hand. Nice catch.

Nice lathe and I love the stool

Originally Posted by mllud22

Nice lathe and I love the stool

Monarch's early 10EE literature makes a point that the operator can run the lathe while sitting down. Later base castings don't have the knee room that we see here. Anyone with a more modern machine finding it possible to operate while sitting down, something that I'd like to be able to do at this point in my life.

Thank you for this bigger picture. Wondering about the speed control knob, it doesn't look original. Any possibility it's replacing the hand wheel for a Sunstrand drive (which one wouldn't expect to find on a 1943 10EE).

David

Originally Posted by old_dave

Monarch's early 10EE literature makes a point that the operator can run the lathe while sitting down. Later base castings don't have the knee room that we see here. Anyone with a more modern machine finding it possible to operate while sitting down, something that I'd like to be able to do at this point in my life.

Originally Posted by old_dave

Thank you for this bigger picture. Wondering about the speed control knob, it doesn't look original. Any possibility it's replacing the hand wheel for a Sunstrand drive (which one wouldn't expect to find on a 1943 10EE).

David

Attachment 314270

Attachment 314271

David
A side by side comparison shows what you are saying. I had noticed the difference in the castings but hadn't thought of why Round Dial's were undercut more. Interesting fact.
I guess on my 1962 model I wont be able to get to ride a Harley Davidson stool while turning metal. Its unfortunate for me and my lame left leg. Getting old sucks.
I'll figure out how to get my sit down time.

The O.P.'s photo was small. I have recently been having issues with small photos also so I had a motive of trying my posting fix at the same time enlarging his.

1943Monarch
There is a thread on posting photo's just down the list a few. We all use different devises and programs and P.M.'s photo posting works best with JPG as Cal posted earlier.

Enjoy your 10EE. There is a pump in the apron and some metering valves that get clogged up over time. It oils the apron feed and threading clutches, feed drive gear and half nuts. Along with the saddle ways and cross feed screw.
Verify that the system is oiling. If the lathe has been sitting for extended time it may take time to get it primed.
Free wheel spinning the apron handwheel helps prime the system on square dial lathes and I believe also on round dial lathe's.
Verify that its oiling.

https://www.practicalmachinist.com/v...posting-issues

Originally Posted by Cal Haines

What's the serial number and build date?

You photo posted very small. Check the extension on the image file. If it's .JPEG, change it to .JPG and the photo will post full size.

Cal

Serial number is 24351
Attached is my second attempt at photos.
The photos now have the jpg extension.
I thought that perhaps a previous owner had made the speed control spinner. The machining was pretty rough. I cleaned it up some up some and reattached.
The lathe even had a dauber with red lead still in the cavity.
The oil level sight glasses are pretty dirty. I figured out the right level for the headstock by pulling the cover. When it was at the right level, I couldn’t see any oil in the sight glass. The gearbox sight glass shows the correct oil level, even when drained. What’s the best way to remove the sight glasses?

Originally Posted by 1943Monarch

Serial number is 24351
Attached is my second attempt at photos.
The photos now have the jpg extension.
I thought that perhaps a previous owner had made the speed control spinner. The machining was pretty rough. I cleaned it up some up some and reattached.
The lathe even had a dauber with red lead still in the cavity.
The oil level sight glasses are pretty dirty. I figured out the right level for the headstock by pulling the cover. When it was at the right level, I couldn’t see any oil in the sight glass. The gearbox sight glass shows the correct oil level, even when drained. What’s the best way to remove the sight glasses?

Thank you for the additional pictures, now I can clearly see what's going on with the speed control knob. You made it, and the whole machine, look very nice. The polished brass property tags are a nice touch. My 10EE just has remnants of a sticker that has something to the effect that it's property of Northrop Corporation Electro-Mechanical Division and a fragment of bar code.
David

Originally Posted by 1943Monarch

Serial number is 24351...

Wow! Mine has serial number 24315!

Originally Posted by 1943Monarch

Attached is my second attempt at photos.
The photos now have the jpg extension.
...

Something is still wrong. I posted one of the photos that you e-mailed to me (the photo from the first post), it has the correct ".JPG" extension and it went in full size. Yet the photos you posted last, posted as if the extension was ".JPEG". I see that the photos came from Apple devices, so they started out with a ".JPEG" extension.

Originally Posted by 1943Monarch

...
The oil level sight glasses are pretty dirty. I figured out the right level for the headstock by pulling the cover. When it was at the right level, I couldn’t see any oil in the sight glass. The gearbox sight glass shows the correct oil level, even when drained. What’s the best way to remove the sight glasses?

The trick to removing the sight glasses is to twist them, using some sort of pin spanner. Here are links that show a couple of possibilities for the spanner:

Oil sight glass cover removal.
Need help removing sightglasses from 10EE

Here's a photo of my spanner:

I think that the radius of the bolt circle for the pins is about 5/8".

Cal

Originally Posted by Cal Haines

Wow! Mine has serial number 24315!


Something is still wrong. I posted one of the photos that you e-mailed to me (the photo from the first post), it has the correct ".JPG" extension and it went in full size. Yet the photos you posted last, posted as if the extension was ".JPEG". I see that the photos came from Apple devices, so they started out with a ".JPEG" extension.


The trick to removing the sight glasses is to twist them, using some sort of pin spanner. Here are links that show a couple of possibilities for the spanner:

Oil sight glass cover removal.
Need help removing sightglasses from 10EE

Here's a photo of my spanner:

I think that the radius of the bolt circle for the pins is about 5/8".

Cal

Thanks for the investigative effort regarding photo size. In the future, I’ll post with the PC instead.

Thanks for the sight glass removal technique.

New problem. Following the procedure in the operator’s manual, I can’t engage the threading half nut despite best efforts. Does this mean apron removal?

The other thing you need to do is watch the file size. On a Mac, the Preview aplication lets you "export" an image, and the dialog box lets you select the image quality. It has a slider. I always slide it until the image size is about 95k and save it as a .jpg. Then the forum software will not molest the image.

The forum software no longer cares about the dimensions or byte size of the file. I routinely upload 1Mb plus files that are over 3000 pixels wide. You used to have to resize the files to keep them under 95k, but that no longer applies. Try just changing the extension of one of your Mac files from ".JPEG" to ".JPG" and uploading it without resizing or otherwise editing it. The main problem with ".JPEG" files is that they have a vertical size limit of 240 pixels, whereas ".JPG" files do not.

Cal

Originally Posted by Cal Haines

The forum software no longer cares about the dimensions or byte size of the file. I routinely upload 1Mb plus files that are over 3000 pixels wide. You used to have to resize the files to keep them under 95k, but that no longer applies. Try just changing the extension of one of your Mac files from ".JPEG" to ".JPG" and uploading it without resizing or otherwise editing it. The main problem with ".JPEG" files is that they have a vertical size limit of 240 pixels, whereas ".JPG" files do not.

Cal

Here is a 1MB .jpg that is being displayed full size. The forum software reduced it to this size:

Here is the same file reduced to 94k before uploading:

So, yes, the forum software still has a maximum file size and if you upload a file that is larger, it will reduce it in size.

Originally Posted by 1943Monarch

Thanks for the sight glass removal technique.

Cals's shop-fab is nicer, but these work also:

Adjustable Pin Spanner Wrench | Northern Tool + Equipment

H-F has them too, also a cheap-arse copy of this one from watch battery replacement days:

https://www.amazon.com/Bergeon-Watch.../dp/B002CVUO1A

The copies can be found for under twenty bucks even when NOT H-F El Cheapos.

Handy for more that ONLY 10EE sight glass bezels. So one has them.

Originally Posted by thermite

Cals's shop-fab is nicer, but these work also:

Adjustable Pin Spanner Wrench | Northern Tool + Equipment

H-F has them too, also a cheap-arse copy of this one from watch battery replacement days:

Amazon.com: Bergeon Watch Case Opener with Four Sets of Pins: Watches

The copies can be found for under twenty bucks even when NOT H-F El Cheapos.

Handy for more that ONLY 10EE sight glass bezels. So one has them.

I think I’ll get the northern tool pin spanner.

Thanks!

Originally Posted by 1943Monarch

New problem. Following the procedure in the operator’s manual, I can’t engage the threading half nut despite best efforts. Does this mean apron removal?

The push-pull knob on the apron that reverses the feed direction has to be half in half out to release the interlock for the half-nut lever. It can be a bit fiddly to find the middle point especially if it's a little gummed up (even though it has detents). I sturggled with mine at first. Now when I'm setting up for threading I put a bit of lift on the half nut lever and carefully feel for that centre spot on the push-pull knob until the ever pops up. My guess is that your half nuts need a bit of maintenance spray to free them up the first time.

Originally Posted by 1943Monarch

I think I’ll get the northern tool pin spanner.

Thanks!

Cal's is better because the pins are right-sized, precisely located, annnd will not tilt and wallow-out an unobtanium part. Sight-glass bezels just don't happen to NEED much force to twist, nor that ration of perfection.

Keep his example in mind if you have to prevent damage to a more critical item.
We usually drill toward one end of a bar of flat stock outta the "drops".
So the longer end has become the "handle" automagically. One can also sacrifice a socket wrench socket so as to generate "pins", edged if not round.

Keep an eye out for "hook" spanners, new and used as well. Not hard to make, either, but why wuddja spare the time if you can avoid it?

Both "notch" AND round pin types are made in both fixed and adjustable form.
Collect those as well as "face" pin spanners, might NEVER use some of them, but..

... they do not take up a lot of drawer space .... annnnd..

.. you can avoid being yet-another "Bubba" who leaves his s**t-prints on a bearing preload nut or such with a dam' hammer and chisel.. too-often, not even a DULL one.. or bends a hammered-on pin-punch to wallow-out a round hole!

We've all seen it. More than "too many" times.

There WILL still be times you need the classical "brass drift" so often mentioned in ice-age Machinashitsing lore. These grow on trees. In the Sahara forest.

Not hard to fab. Why do we so seldom DO it?

My preference is Nickel-Aluminium Bronze. Because I actually had some!

My sight glasses must have been on there since 43' as well. Always read full.. ha hah... I removed them the same way I've done it for 40 + year of doing this. Get a brass punch and round the end to more or less match the contour of the screw countersinks on the rings. Line up on a countersink so that you can rotate it and tap with a small hammer and they usually pop loose. A set of needle nose pliers can pull it right out once lose. Never had to really fight any using this method and even on my 10EE it was wham bam thank you ma'am... all done. Don

Originally Posted by Don's Engine

My sight glasses must have been on there since 43' as well. Always read full.. ha hah... I removed them the same way I've done it for 40 + year of doing this. Get a brass punch and round the end to more or less match the contour of the screw countersinks on the rings. Line up on a countersink so that you can rotate it and tap with a small hammer and they usually pop loose. A set of needle nose pliers can pull it right out once lose. Never had to really fight any using this method and even on my 10EE it was wham bam thank you ma'am... all done. Don

Well... Florida?

Stone me for a stereotyping HEATHEN!

All this time I thot' Bubba made his home in backwoods Appalachia, uphill hinterlands of DPRK, Dirt-poor-istan, or Ukraine's Donbas region?

Go figure whamming and bamming is poly-juris-dick-tick?

Gonna "fight" any of 'em?

12-bore, high brass, number one buck oughta save wear and tear on that hammer. Or mebbe just a needle scaler up close and personal?

Cheatin' if you miss more'n three times.

Proper mass for those "small hammers" is about triple the IQ of the wham-bammer, BTW.

How hard was that?

Originally Posted by thermite

Well... Florida?

Stone me for a stereotyping HEATHEN!

All this time I thot' Bubba made his home in backwoods Appalachia, uphill hinterlands of DPRK, Dirt-poor-istan, or Ukraine's Donbas region?

Go figure whamming and bamming is poly-juris-dick-tick?

Gonna "fight" any of 'em?

12-bore, high brass, number one buck oughta save wear and tear on that hammer. Or mebbe just a needle scaler up close and personal?

Cheatin' if you miss more'n three times.

Proper mass for those "small hammers" is about triple the IQ of the wham-bammer, BTW.

How hard was that?

No, Don has it right. There is no need for a triple pin spanner. Sight glass bezels are easy to break loose either by tilting a punch or by tapping sideways with a punch. Its only worked for me for 30 years, but added to Don's that makes 73. Almost the same age as the lathe..