Apron gear cleaning (square-dial 10EE)

bmazin · Sep 23, 2018

I took my apron off today and got in there to change the filters on the oil pump - and it looks like I found the source of the sludge that was jamming up the crossfeed.

There was a thick layer of oil and rusty sludge at the bottom. The gears are pretty dirty - I think I need to clean this all out before I reinstall the oil pump. Any suggestion on how to clean the gears? Just take everything out and scrub it with mineral spirits and a brass wire brush? Has anyone written instructions on how to take the apron gears apart?

For fun, here is what my oil pump looked like when it came out. It was actually functional, too...

Also, how do I open the crossfeed dial up? I’m guessing its got a lot of sludge inside I should clean. Thanks!

TDegenhart · Sep 24, 2018

I would put the parts in a solvent tank with a pump, turn on the pump and let the flow of solvent chew away at the gunk. Probably take hours or even days. NO pump then just let the parts soak with an occasional brushing. I would not attack anything until you can see what you are doing.

Tom

labeeman · Sep 24, 2018

Bring it to a automatic transmission shop that has a trans cleaner and let them clean it.

bmazin · Sep 24, 2018

labeeman said:
Bring it to a automatic transmission shop that has a trans cleaner and let them clean it.

I like the way you think.

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rakort · Sep 24, 2018

I tore mine completely down. Need to get in there and check everything out and repair it.

Flushing with solvent will only get you 3/4 of the way there.

I put in new bearings in the process and they really didn't cost that much.

The apron is often neglected, gets filled with swarf, and the sumps get full of moisture laden oil. They need a good going thru now and again.

bmazin · Sep 26, 2018

I got it cleaned up and started disassembling it. It’s really complicated! Are there better drawings somewhere? The reproductions in the manual I got from Monarch are low quality.

There are a couple of gears that mate together with a spring between - how do I get these out?

Also, how do the shafts that are fixed with small set screws parallel the the shaft come out? Thanks!

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rakort · Sep 27, 2018

bmazin said:
I got it cleaned up and started disassembling it. It’s really complicated! Are there better drawings somewhere? The reproductions in the manual I got from Monarch are low quality.

There are a couple of gears that mate together with a spring between - how do I get these out?

Also, how do the shafts that are fixed with small set screws parallel the the shaft come out? Thanks!

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Ahh it's not that complicated. that pix you posted was really bad quality. Post some better pixs of the question areas.

Small shafts with the set screws come out by removing the set screw and taping them out lightly with a punch. Make sure they go back in the same hole and the only difficult part is getting them clocked correctly so the screw hole matches up.

Cal Haines · Sep 27, 2018

bmazin said:
I got it cleaned up and started disassembling it. It’s really complicated! Are there better drawings somewhere? The reproductions in the manual I got from Monarch are low quality.

There are a couple of gears that mate together with a spring between - how do I get these out?

Also, how do the shafts that are fixed with small set screws parallel the the shaft come out? Thanks!

Do me a favor: when you start a new thread, please let us know what model and version lathe you're asking about. Yours is a square-dial 10EE, right? (I changed the thread title for you.)

RC99's rebuild thread may help with some of the disassembly details (his is a round-dial, but a lot of the major gearing is essentially the same):

https://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/monarch-lathes/ozee-rebuild-264941-post2035725/#post2035725

I know that there are other threads with good detail on apron tear-down, but I'm not able to find them.

metalillness.com used to have some nice manual scans, but the website seems to have gone away. I think this is the same '65 manual that was on metalillness:

1" Model "EE" Toolmakers and Manufacturing Lathe * Old Machine Information Archives

It's a very nice scan. I can zoom in 400% and things are still sharp. However, I don't think it includes the apron assembly drawing. Send me an e-mail and I'll give you a copy.

Cal

bmazin · Sep 28, 2018

Here is a better picture of the two gears on the “C” shaft. I got the shaft out but can’t seem to remove the two gears.

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rakort · Sep 28, 2018

Well a couple of thoughts.....

Gears are in much worse shape that I would have hoped. Looks serviceable for a time though.

Keep going with the tear down. You are on it.....and keep cleaning and replacing bearings and keep cleaning the gears.

I do recall, regarding your problem, is that there is a specific order of disassembly to get all the gear business out of there, which I'm sorry I can't recite.

Pull the shaft / bearings out and the various gear assemblies should slide out "horizontally" when done so in the right order.

rakort · Sep 28, 2018

Some wise person also said it doesn't take much force to disassemble a monarch lathe......just need to find all the set screws hidden under the gunk~!

bmazin · Sep 28, 2018

Stacking set screws is cruel and unusual punishment.

I also have to say that locking a shaft in place with a set screw parallel and partially drilled into the shaft is a new one for me.

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rakort · Sep 28, 2018

thermite said:
Hidden under a second set screw, yah mean!

well ya gota start some where

rakort · Sep 29, 2018

thermite said:
Mind - if sumthin comes right off, no problem. If not, this is what to check for next before reaching for pullers, press, pickle-forks, or slide-hammers, etc.

I wasn't kidding either! I think I made that point earlier! only use gentle persuasion to move things about and if that doesn't work look deeper in the muck for set screws.

daryl bane · Sep 29, 2018

May I suggest that you either buy or find somebody that has a proper bead blaster to clean up those horrific gears. Not only will they look better, but will provide an improved visual inspection. Usually they turn out to be not so bad after all.

bmazin · Sep 29, 2018

daryl bane said:
May I suggest that you either buy or find somebody that has a proper bead blaster to clean up those horrific gears. Not only will they look better, but will provide an improved visual inspection. Usually they turn out to be not so bad after all.

I have an electrolysis tank set up so I can get the rust off them pretty easily and see how they look after that. I’ll post some pics.

My guess is that this lathe hasn’t actually been run that hard - the headstock gears look like new, and the places there you might expect wear seen solid except for the apron. I think it was just really dirty and a bit neglected - maybe some water-based coolant (it is set up with a coolant pump) got into the apron and rusted the gears as it sat for a long time.

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bmazin · Sep 29, 2018

This is the shaft I can’t get out. It looks like someone went at it with a chisel at some point. Is this threaded internally somewhere, or do I just need to knock it out with a dowel? Thanks.

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bmazin · Sep 29, 2018

Nevermind, I finally got it. Took out a similar one which was easy, so I got the technique. This one just needed some firm convincing with a hammer.

bmazin · Sep 29, 2018

I’ve got it all apart.

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bmazin · Oct 4, 2018

While I have the apron apart I am going to repaint it. It looks like the back was originally unpainted. Is there any reason not to paint the back of the apron if I’m careful about masking?

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Apron gear cleaning (square-dial 10EE)

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