Casting a Monarch 10Ee Taper Attachment Micrometer gear housing

I have my micrometer apart. It has a nice casting. I have all the gears and shafts accept the worm. It was missing.
Anyway if I was going to cast this part or have it cast.
I know I would have to add material to the flat milled surfaces so it would have material to mill it back true.
How much?
I have done some aluminum casting. Would aluminum be ok? I could get set up to do this small part.
If cast iron is needed I could have them cast.
I'm willing to take this on. I know that the gears can be bought and anybody needing one will have a lathe to make the two small shafts.. When the 10 ee is up and running I could supply the shafts also.
The micrometer is another issue. I believe it's laid out in 60 degree's. Ill look at it in the morning.

I have a couple questions here. I could google and get the answers but The knowledge here would be better
I have been thinking about this since Sneebot's steady rest. They always seem to be missing.
Edit
Rimcanyon Postings about it sort of pushed me into doing this There is a need





Thanks Mike

I need a cad program so I could give all the specs. I can do it without cad but it would be better with cad.

mllud22 said:

I need a cad program so I could give all the specs. I can do it without cad but it would be better with cad.

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I guess there is some originality factor with a casting for the 10EE crowd, but I often reverse engineer and 100% machine replacement parts that were originally cast steel. If you aren't going to make a ton of them, this looks like a good candidate.

Hillside Fab said:

I guess there is some originality factor with a casting for the 10EE crowd, but I often reverse engineer and 100% machine replacement parts that were originally cast steel. If you aren't going to make a ton of them, this looks like a good candidate.

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Im not sure that originality is all that important with all 10ee guys. Maybe supplying specs or a program would do. . A casting would make it a bit less work for some..

Beckly22 milled his out of a block in this thread. Starts at Post #214
Wreck Update post #214

mllud22 said:

I have my micrometer apart. It has a nice casting. I have all the gears and shafts accept the worm. It was missing.
Anyway if I was going to cast this part or have it cast.
I know I would have to add material to the flat milled surfaces so it would have material to mill it back true.
How much? ...

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You can't use a cast part as a pattern to make a new casting. The metal shrinks during casting: aluminum shrinks about 7% and cast iron about 10%. The pattern needs to be made larger than the desired size so that the casting shrinks to the correct size. These days, the way to go is to create a solid model of the part in a CAD program, then 3D print the pattern with the correct shrinkage allowance. There are 3D scanners that can make a 3D model (a stereo lithography file or similar) that can be used for 3D printing.

Cal

Cal Haines said:

You can't use a cast part as a pattern to make a new casting. The metal shrinks during casting: aluminum shrinks about 7% and cast iron about 10%. The pattern needs to be made larger than the desired size so that the casting shrinks to the correct size. These days, the way to go is to create a solid model of the part in a CAD program, then 3D print the pattern with the correct shrinkage allowance. There are 3D scanners that can make a 3D model (a stereo lithography file or similar) that can be used for 3D printing.

Cal

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Do you know what that 3d model might cost?
I knew that I would have to add material to the milled surface [ per first post]. I was considering addin1/16 to 1/8 inch to the milled surfaces by using locktiite and sheet aluminum and file edges to shape.. Redneck style. The whole part 7 percent smaller percent may meke other problems. Have to do it right or not at all.
You answered my question from post #1 with the 7 al. to 10 percent. cast
Thanks cal
I may call around after the holidays.. milling it out of a block may be best.

My first job was grinding castings at a foundry. I got a call from a printing company and happily left that grinding wheel.

It should be relatively easy to model it in 3D CAD and then you can add any scaling factor you want to account for casting shrinkage. If you poke around at foundry pages or stuff on casting they will give guidelines for added material for machining.

Cal-- I believe you added a zero to your cast iron shrinkage- should be 1-2%

You're right, I misread the table. I was looking at table with mm/m. About 1.3% for Aluminum.

I would probably do the modelling myself. There are lots of affordable 3D CAD programs out there. But I've never done it, so best to ask someone else. I would start with the CAD/CAM and 3D Printing fora here. They probably also know if there are affordable 3D scanning services.

Cal

mllud22 said:

Im not sure that originality is all that important with all 10ee guys. Maybe supplying specs or a program would do. . A casting would make it a bit less work for some..

Beckly22 milled his out of a block in this thread. Starts at Post #214
Wreck Update post #214

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Shoot me a PM, I dont have a lot going on right now.

thermite said:

One can. Done every day of the week in the jewlery trade by low-voltage plating (VERY low Voltage!), but... that common sort of "shrink compensation" uses pure Silver. Which we later recover. And is done for pulling rubber molds for high-volume lost-wax casting, rather SMALL items, but of high unit-value (14 K & 18 K Gold..). Can go to completion overnight, so little metal is needed.

Volume involved here is orders of magnitude greater, and demand volume lower.
Probably less than you might hope for.

Not everyone needs one. Not all who could use one will spend anything FOR it.

ISTR vettebob got decent take-up on his cast TA bed clamps. But those were near-as-dammit ALWAYS missing or bustid.



That could work if the investment isn't a barrier.

So too, code for CNC milling directly from solid shiney-wood if but fewsies needed per several years at a stretch.

Might put up a "poll" and see how many 10EE minders would want one?

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Pretty sure I can draw it and add shrink cheaper than silver. Also pretty sure casting not necessary.

thermite said:

I'd surely HOPE so!

It's a LOT simpler than an item of jewelry and has to FUNCTION like OEM, not necessarily LOOK like it.

Pourable plastic build-up, OTOH, doesn't require much in the way of equipment nor scarce skills.





Needs volume to justify the investment in the mold vs machining directly, yes.

"Onesie" jewelry items were commonly built by hand "in the wax" directly, added to the "tree" to be invested next go, along with other volume goods pulled from the usual rubber molds.

A skilled craftsman was the "3D printer", compensating for shrinkage and adjusting for sizes of Diamonds and precious stones to be later set off the back of years of experience.

I don't see a gain here in casting a modified rectangular solid with "features" as can be drilled and milled, though.

"Needs volume demand!"

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No buzz words or jewels needed. I can mill this part out of a block of 4140 faster than whatever you are going on about.

thermite said:

Great news!

Now quote folks a price for such a tiny time at shop rate, and I've accomplished what I set out to do!

Found an expert... one we can even afford!

Surely that was not just BS?

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3 hrs to reverse engineer, 1/2 hr per part. 100/hr, plus material. Min 10 parts per run.

Aluminium shrinks about 1% IMHO
When taking the model out of the mould one needs to ram it sideways anyhow
That enlarges the mould enough to compensate for shrinking in these small castings
I would make a core for that hole
If you have back yard foundry set up making the mold is about 1 hours work depending on your skills

Peter

Peter from Holland said:

Aluminium shrinks about 1% IMHO
When taking the model out of the mould one needs to ram it sideways anyhow
That enlarges the mould enough to compensate for shrinking in these small castings
I would make a core for that hole
If you have back yard foundry set up making the mold is about 1 hours work depending on your skills

Peter

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If I was going to cast them one at a time would not be my plan.
I was thinking of getting some mold making material and making about ten patterns out of a pourable material. Shrinkage of that material would also have to be considered also.

As long as the milled bossed and other milled surfaces were built up so there was material to mill back off afterwards I agree that 1 percent shrinkage would not be an issue.
I could add 1 percent to the exterior by brushing on a few layers of fiberglass. Or bondo if needed


Casting one at a time would eat fuel and time.

Hillside Fab's price is good. I doubt it could be beat. I dont have any idea what casting at a foundry would cost. I know ordering more gets the price down.
I have not sourced the gears at Boston gear but I believe they are inexpensive. The worm gear set may be a little more in cost.
The micrometer may be able to be made from an inexpensive micrometer thimble. If someone wanted that to look original they could make that themselves

I'm not sure these couldn't be made out of a composite or 3d printed. The part isn't under any real stress.
I dont really like that idea but what are your thoughts.??

These could be supplied as a kit or just a casting and a list of parts needed. There are some 10 ee owners that may not be equipped to machine the casting. Although it could be mounted on a faceplate to machine. Some will want plug and play.

The bore for the micrometer would be easy to get wrong. I'm guessing that's why Peter from Holland was thinking when he said that he would make a core for that hole.
If I was going to make these I would make a fixture to keep it all square.

The micrometer could just be a knob. Controlling movement is the main thing but having increments of movement is better.
Suggestions for the micrometer would be appreciated. To keep the price down making the dials one at a time would hurt the cost. There must be something out there that could be fit to the worm.

I would think making ten of these at a time would be a safe number so I wouldn't be stuck with inventory.
Even with Hillsides good price adding material costs and shipping would drive the price up.

I'm thinking doing the casting , machining and assembly at one place is the only way to keep I affordable.

I'm going to start getting set up for casting at years end
.I may have questions when I get to the gears. Boston gear will most likely help getting part numbers. I'm a little ignorant when looking at gear charts and gear information. I need to do some online self schooling.
Mike


If one of you out there that has shop overhead and covid has got you workload down I wouldn't be bothered by someone jumping on this. Ill give you the spec's and gear information.
. As it was explained to me by a shop owner friend that hourly rate and keeping the parts like this affordable usually dont jive. Should say what a 10ee owner would see as affordable.
Initial setup may consume some time but then its pretty easy.

Making 10 small mold boxes and using my one mold would be better. Im production minded

The alternative for a core there would be solid
But that gives a big hunk of materiasl over there with a chance on faults
If I needed to make them I would paint my original a few times with paint with talcum powder added to thicken it up a bit
Ad a core print for the hole to the original Then glue on some material for machining allowance (some veneer) and taper the eye piece and shallow hole
Make some small wooden mold boxes and mold them using furan or cement as a binder Remoce the box once hardened Then I can make blocks of sand without a box around them as much as I need Positioning is done by making 3 diples in the drag by turning a spacer around in the sand That leaves some bumps in the cope Corebox would be 2pc of wood with a drilled hole on the seem If they need to be tapered I use some sandpaper to taper the straight cores
I would cast them standing up so you have more hight

Peter

Sorry I'm a bit late to the party. Just busy. Are you guys speaking about doing this?

These were cast a few years ago, by now. Never got around to offering the TAFEE kits. I was not satisfied with the first couple of runs.

thermite said:

Thank you. Sounds like a very realistic figure, too.



I read that as $800 + material for the first ten, or but $80 each - plus raw stock cost & shipping.

Almost wish I needed one myself.... given an ignorant carton of smokes is over FIFTY bucks .... and all I have left is f*****g ashes!



Now .... who DOES need these?

Grab it and growl ... while yah can!

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Yeah, I didn't really price in any kind of distribution cost, and I'm not setup for small sales to the public. Prefer to just supply the full batch to someone.

mllud22 said:

I'm not sure these couldn't be made out of a composite or 3d printed. The part isn't under any real stress.
I dont really like that idea but what are your thoughts.??


I would think making ten of these at a time would be a safe number so I wouldn't be stuck with inventory.
Even with Hillsides good price adding material costs and shipping would drive the price up.

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I'd skip the composites and plastics, just too easy to snap off in a shop environment from inadvertent bumps. If you send me the actual stock sizes, I can quote you in A36 and 6061. I bet they would all fit in a large flat rate. Or worst case a couple smaller flat rate boxes. You may be close enough that I just deliver them free??

Zahnrad Kopf said:

Sorry I'm a bit late to the party. Just busy. Are you guys speaking about doing this?

These were cast a few years ago, by now. Never got around to offering the TAFEE kits. I was not satisfied with the first couple of runs.

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Ya I know of one member that has been looking for one of those castings. I see some rough spots like on the second from the left that could be dressed .
I was headed in the direction of casting some but it looks like your set up.
What is the issue. Rough finish?

I guess now would be a good time to take a poll on how many have an interest in one.

It seems like there is always someone asking. .