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  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by nobrakese28 View Post
    Thermite, thank you for the information.

    Just to be clear, I understand the machine is factory 220/440v rated. But the machine will still requires 3-phase even if dropped to 220v?

    Thanks,

    Marco
    Never was 3-Phase. Not because it was expected to live where 3-Phase was not available.

    Mere byproduct in that 3-Phase Thyristors - hollow-state or dirty-beach-sand, either one, need more pass-elements and firing controls for the extra leg.

    That was an extra cost, costlier transformer, etc not seen as essential at the time.

    It WAS done, later and or on "other" Monarchs and not-only on Monarchs.

    Juice pump the possible exception but silly, given about $80 buys a brand-new one in either of 120 V or 240 V,, already single phase. So BFD. Hobbyists tend to cut "dry" anyway. Which is OK for Carbides about as often as not, But stoopid for HSS-Cobalt..

    Otherwise.. pay attention to the gentleman from Walla Walla.

    It isn't reading-up or collitch ingineering theory with him. He has done this, hands-on, in-person, and on more than just the one modular drive 10EE.

    I have learned from him, thanks. Not the other way 'round.



    Helluva good photograper too, BTW. Photof**kit, OTOH? Not so well blessed!

  2. #62
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    It has been awhile since I have worked on one, the transformers are T6 and T7, not T7 and 8.
    Peter H did a sticky regarding wiring the filament transformers, using these notes from my 12-1983 lathes electrical prints.
    images of those notes from the last module drive electrical prints.






    It is important to have the factory electrical print for your serial # lathe, there were changes in the module drive from 1960 to 1983. Sometimes people fiddle with them and get wires out of place.

    The image most important to you is the bottom one, this shows the transformers wired direct for 220volt, and the tap for correct voltage is "The Brown Wire". You do not have "juggle the taps" as described for 440 volt...it can be seen, I noted my lathe used the yellow wire for high voltage operation.

  3. #63
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    Donie, thank you for taking the time to post the diagrams. So I got the machine home and safely placed on Christmas Eve, I started opening the covers to see what I have this morning. Tim Jones has been very generous with his time and sent me some really nice instructions on setting the machine for 220v operation.

    So far this is what we have found:

    T5 transformer was properly wired for 220v.

    T3 transformer was wired incorrectly, the L1-H4/H3 & L3-H1/H2, so it was corrected to: L1,H1-H3 & L3,H2-H4

    T4 and the capacitor were replaced with a constant voltage transformer

    T6 and T7 are set up for 220V, L1 feeds H1 and L3 feeds H4 on both transformers (yellow wire)

    The shunt wires are 20-20.5" long.

    With that, I plugged the machine in. I switched it to on and I could here a fan start. The green light then clicked on, but when I pressed the start button the contactor did not close, so the machine will not run.

    Currently planning on having a call with Tim tomorrow to try and figure this out.

    The right hand and center tube seem to be working, the left hand tube feels warm but I do not see a "orange glow" in the center. I did place the order for the tube replacements though.

    Thanks again!

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by nobrakese28 View Post

    With that, I plugged the machine in. I switched it to on and I could here a fan start. The green light then clicked on, but when I pressed the start button the contactor did not close, so the machine will not run.
    Hello, First Congrats on getting a 10EE.
    I recently got a 1969 10EE and I am sorting out the Modular drive.
    This evening After it quit, the PWR Contactor would no-longer close, like you have reported above.

    First check if the PWR Contactor/Relay’s “RESET” is triggered (i.e. is in the outward position), 1st Pic: Green Arrow, if so Push it in and Retry.

    Second, If the Reset doesn’t fix the issue:
    1) Make sure the spindle Engagement Lever is in the NEUTRAL position & try again, if that doesn’t work, then
    2) with something NON-CONDUCTIVE, manually engage the Contacts by pushing up on the stem, Blue Arrow.

    c884c673-a88f-405b-af84-ab52bca502dc.jpg

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 61a71622-73c5-476e-981e-c06005e34e5b.jpg  
    Last edited by Mac007; 12-27-2019 at 08:02 PM.

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    Do a quick,and make sure you spindle lock is not on.

    Hal

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    Quote Originally Posted by 220swift View Post
    Do a quick,and make sure you spindle lock is not on.

    Hal
    What he said ....and also check that the reduction gearbox linkage has it firmly in one position or the other, not in-between.

    "Page Two" - switches - any of them, anywhere - or their terminations and wiring can also fail.

    Not often, but.... Lybarger's Corollary applies, so "the small s**t" actually does in more folks than the expensive s**t.

    Aggravatiing to hunt it down, but at least not-also-costly. Usually, anyway.

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    She is alive! One of the number 50 wires was completely out! I replaced it back into the terminal and the contactor engaged! I think the contactor is a little sticky from not being exercised in so long, so it takes a few pushed of the start button to make it hold. But I am really happy, so far it sounds good when running! I need to pick up some oil for the gearbox and bring her to the proper level.

    Would it be wise to clean the contactors mating surface? Maybe some light sand paper to clean any corrosion, I see a little corrosion on the screw above the reset button.

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    I can see your smile all the way in Ohio, congrats!

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    Quote Originally Posted by nobrakese28 View Post
    Would it be wise to clean the contactors mating surface? Maybe some light sand paper to clean any corrosion, I see a little corrosion on the screw above the reset button.

    I got these off Amazon:
    Amazon.com: IPA 8045 Automotive Accessories: Automotive



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    Quote Originally Posted by nobrakese28 View Post
    Would it be wise to clean the contactors mating surface? Maybe some light sand paper to clean any corrosion, I see a little corrosion on the screw above the reset button.
    Abrasive paper isn't HORRIBLE, and yah don't need a whole half-dozen or so of files and burnishers as Old Skewl telco and automotive breaker-points fossils have carried about for over half a century. The best if yah can only have ONE is a Jonard (the SET, actually..) or the cheap knock-offs with diamond grit on spring steel as may be in the blister paks at the oughtta-farts outlet, with the lamps and LED's, but if not..

    Just drop by the nearest penurious-lady store - "Dollar" sumthin' or such - and grab you a grit-coated, AND NOT cut-toothed fingernail "file". Small mirror will find uses as well since it is right in front of you. Tweezers ain't no Henry N. Mann "AAA" quality, but those, too. Cheap enough for expendable mods and the like.

    Use it. Toss in the corner of the drawer.

    Handier and easier to APPLY accurately right where ya need it than folded papers are.

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    Cut a strip from a brown paper bag and drag it between the contacts. If that does't work. Napa has point files, get one of those a carefully dress up the contacts. Clean the corrosion up.

    Hal

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    Hey guys, I'll pick up a diamond file when I get a chance, it would seem the sand paper helped. It latches on the 1st or 2nd try.

    Took a trip to McMaster and picked up some Mobile DTE Light, DTE heavy-medium, and #2 way oil for the machine. Upon inspection of the machine running, I notices the left tube is weak. The middle and right-hand tube glow a beautiful purple color, and the left one will occasionally turn on.

    Overall the machine works smoothly, but I am excited to get the new tube replacements in the machine.

    I decided it would be a good idea to remove the compound and cross-slide to verify the oiling is working as it should. Does the compound only take oil externally? As in you shoot the dovetail ways with way-oil? I do not see any oiling holes.

    I was able to remove the compound completely and I am about half-way through removing the cross-slide. I have decided to remove the taper attachment completely and clean it up, as they painted a few things they shouldn't. Im about to remove the gibb from the cross-slide.

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    Default Thyratron tubes - Filament Voltage 2.5 volts !

    Hello NoBrakes,
    You have a lot of very knowledgeable people here helping you and they know much more than I. I will share however that per all the documentation states that it is very important for the longevity of the Thyratron Tubes that the “Filament Voltage’ is 2.5 volts.

    Today I checked mine and they were both off and HIGHER than they were suppose to be: Left Transformer 2.6 & Right one was 2.7
    They were both connected to the Yellow Wire Tap, H4. To lower the voltage the instructions say move UP, so I moved up to H5 taps and I got exactly 2.50 volts.

    My 1969 10EE came factory wired for 440 high voltage. My Transformers are labeled 400/500 volts. The lathe came with an external Step UP Transformer that takes household 220 and steps it up. I measured this and it is providing the Lathe 468 volts. Its possible originally this Lathe may have been connected to 440 3phase and the H4 taps may have been correct and then the next owner implemented the Step UP transformer and at that time the Filament Voltage should have been re-checked.

    You would have to ask Tim how critical the 2.5volts is for his Solid State tube replacements. Tim has been invaluable to me in sharing his knowledge and time to help me with my 10EE, Great Guy !!

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    No brakes

    If I had known you were going to McMasters, I would have told to to buy a burnishing tool. It is the correct tool to polish points with.
    Don't use sand paper because it leave behind grit and also scratches on the contact surface. With each scratch there is less surface making contact, a poorer connection.

    Hal

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    Hey guys, I will be going back to McMaster Carr tomorrow,as I need a woodruff key for the carriage handle, not sure if it was missing or I lost it. So I will pick-up a burnisher then.

    So I did a little research and learned the compound is not auto lubed, so manual lubing is the ticket.

    I removed the taper attachment and all of the cross-slide down to the apron. Lots of swarf in the cross-slide screw, so I am glad that I tore it down.

    I am not getting oil from the apron/cross-slide dovetail after moving the carriage back and fourth, but after closer examination of the reservoir. I realized the staining of the sight glass was not the oil level, so I filled her with some fresh Vactra 2. I then moved the carriage forward and backward, about ten times.... Still no oil.

    Is the next step to drop the sump and investigate? Any good threads on this subject someone could point me to? I haven't found anything definitive yet searching the site.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nobrakese28 View Post

    I am not getting oil from the apron/cross-slide dovetail after moving the carriage back and fourth, but after closer examination of the reservoir. I realized the staining of the sight glass was not the oil level, so I filled her with some fresh Vactra 2. I then moved the carriage forward and backward, about ten times.... Still no oil.

    Is the next step to drop the sump and investigate? Any good threads on this subject someone could point me to? I haven't found anything definitive yet searching the site.

    Hello NoBrakes,
    After you added the Vactra 2, did you power on the Lathe, or just move the carriage manually with the Lathe off?

    If the latter, you will not see oil. My understanding is the Apron Oil Pump is powered by the rotating Feed Rod. So the Lathe has to be running for the Pump to operate.

    Someone correct me if I’m wrong about this.

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    Mac, it was manual feeding the carriage. So I just ran the lathe and powered the feed back and fourth twice, no oil.....

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    Quote Originally Posted by nobrakese28 View Post
    Mac, it was manual feeding the carriage. So I just ran the lathe and powered the feed back and fourth twice, no oil.....

    I think I would turn on the lathe and just let it run for a bit, and don’t necessarily run the carriage feed, but you could run the cross feed under power feed back and forth. Use the lowest feed rate. It may take some time for the oil to penetrate any obstructions. After this then manually move the carriage and look for the Vactra #2.

    My 1969 that I recently acquired was in storage for the last 10 years and it is oiling the bed/carriage very well. I may have to read up on how to “tune” the oiling distribution, it seems to be producing a lot of oil on the operator side “V” versus the far side FLAT. Any links would be appreciated anyone.
    Kind Regards all, Ken

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    Quote Originally Posted by nobrakese28 View Post
    so I filled her with some fresh Vactra 2. I then moved the carriage forward and backward, about ten times.... Still no oil.
    You almost certainly WILL not, either.

    I may be one of a very few who managed to get a "long dead" 10EE flow going again without opening her up and replacing the Bijur metering units, but what led to that was about half "accident" and the other half a RUDE "chemical cheat".

    And then it didn't "last" anyway! My one had simply gone for too many years with them not working, whether a/the PO(s) had been making chips without lube - or just letting it SIT.

    A) I didn't fill with Vactra. A witches' brew of ATF, solvents, and penetrants - synthetic oil of wintergreen and several others, rather. Even I would be embarassed to reveal ALL the s**t as was tried! And it was a waste of time, even as "R&D" goes.

    B) As other matters prevented me even STARTING on that part of the 10EE, I'd pass by typically twice a day and spend about ten minutes or so spraying more solvents at the ways and cranking the carriage end-to-end ten to more that twenty times. Each visit.

    C) GRADUALLY, the black smut of "fretting corrosion" stopped coming out from under the carriage (fossilized wipers were off, of course).

    About four MONTHS into this masturbation in lieu of being able to make chips.. FRESH liquid began to appear on ways and cross -- the both of them!

    Oh, happy DAY! Then it got drained, kerosene flushed, and given new Vactra.

    D) That done, then it sat for a longish spell, and wuddn' yah know it?

    It did the honest thing, true to its nature. And - volatiles now gone - clogged TF up again!

    Bottom line, is YES it must be opened-up, and YES the only thing as makes economic sense is to order the proper Bijur units, and from Monarch, not MMC or Bijur.

    From Monarch, so you don't have to fiddle-fart about trying to get the right ones as have replaced obsolete SKU's for one or more of those chosen 80 years or so ago when the 10EE was still in R&D (1936-1939?).

    Monarch's prices, they aren't even very expensive.

    Given a fresh set could last the 10EE another forty years or more if it isn't abused, abandoned, or both? They are nearly "free" if amortized even over but ten years service.

    It doesn't make any sense to waste time trying to "clean" the old ones for ANOTHER reason, either.

    There's LOTS you need to do on your 10EE that you cannot "just buy". Mess around wth too damned much "money saving DIY"? You'll run out of time and not get to the end at all.

    DAMHIKT!

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    Mac/Thermite, thank you for the response. I ran the machine under power and fed the carriage back and fourth for about 30 minutes, still no oil. I am contemplating removing the saddle from the machine, but may work the sump first. I will start a new thread that is dedicated to this. Thanks!


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