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  1. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by nobrakese28 View Post
    Mac/Thermite, thank you for the response. I ran the machine under power and fed the carriage back and fourth for about 30 minutes, still no oil. I am contemplating removing the saddle from the machine, but may work the sump first. I will start a new thread that is dedicated to this. Thanks!
    I haven't "done the research" but pretty sure what we are all fighting has a biological factor involved.

    Critters that LIVE on components of oils and gradually leave behind their poop and dead cells.

    Think it through. Yah eat a serving of gooshy Escargot snails or a slithery-soft oyster can't even SEE a "diatom" easily without help, - fergit at yer "pearl" that these critters manufacture a form of STONE as part of their ordinary life-cycle as not only resists erosion, but ends up in thick sediments as endure for multiple millions of years.

    On a more 10EE-personal scale? A tiny bit of gummy stuff generated and progressively trapped in a tiny space with the nano-ist of metal work or wear particals, and the passage of only fifty years or LESS - is all it takes before a metering orifice isn't the same as it was when "virgin"!

    Some "holy" things may go looser with age and "traffic". Bijurs just ain't among them!

    Mind . .at least they won't give yah an STD, either!

    That said, skin, even blood, infections CAN BE a risk, old and grubby machines and the s**t they have accumulated. Then there are shrp edges and the toxic nature of even CLEAN lubes, so..

    Gloves around MOVING machnery may be a really BAD idea, but when into repairing the old and grubby, inner thins of latex, nitrile, polyvinyl - depending on solvents expected, outer, tougher "wear layer" of gloves can keep yah healthier, longer.

    Prep for your project, don't just drift into it casually.

    A box or bundle of each is good. Yew-Ass Medical Scare is waaaay the more expensive option.

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  3. #82
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    Thermite has very good advise there, for example the old Hanford surplus milling machine had beryllium chips in the sump mix with other metals, sand and sage brush. At the bottom was a thick, real bad smelling oil sludge, from whatever coolant they were using. And, just back in the 70s many cutting fluids used carbon tet and other ingredients, that would cause a hazmat team response now days.
    The beryllium alloys are not as dangerous as pure beryllium where a sliver under the skin will poison you, but I think its best to limit exposure to any of these things, and use a real filter mask, and gloves to keep from ingesting the known and unknown.
    I emptied the mills sump after washing the machine down with the de-rusting mix of acetone and atf fluid, and kerosene, and also mixing in kitty litter, worked to keep the dust down. Ended up with more then 50lbs of waste, 20lbs of that kitty litter. I about wore myself out tossing all those bags in the guy next doors back yard!
    When they set that machine in my drive way, my wife said, that machine really stinks, you need to get after that right away.

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    Quote Originally Posted by donie View Post
    Ended up with more then 50lbs of waste, 20lbs of that kitty litter. I about wore myself out tossing all those bags in the guy next doors back yard!
    ROFLMAO! "Spew alert next go, kind Sir!

    I uses stronger cawfee and more expensive keyboards than average.

    Grace of God in her infinite mercy the mushtash was so damned overdue for timbering it got diverted into my lap instead.. Which is another thing, BTW...



    As to "disposal"...

    My own "naturally fermented" fossilized gore jellified then dug outta the mill and drilpress sumps- easily a hundred times worse than the lathes - will be buried to help vermin-proof the buried conduit out to the Diesel gen set.

    "Jellification" was the trick, BTW. Don't dilute and flush away. Concentrate and not have the mess and oversplash, rather.

    Think about what the Big Corp chem labs did for paint remover, and go for a similar end-effect even if you use something less nasty.

    If the greater part of the crud ends up bound up sorta like jello that has shrunk away from its grip on the sump, out cometh 90% of it with an expendable-grade spoon or stew ladle outta the "Dollar-whatever" or Asian market kitchenware section. I suppose one could even use "real jello" powders to bind it up even more conveniently than kitty-litter/ oil absorber (which has gone cheaper, pampered as cats asses are these days).

    That half can of "Great Stuff" foam you were annoyed was too much to use and KNEW would be useless even two days later? WD-40 surface prep spritz, then foam Into the belly of the 10EE's empty base cab, and outta the corners comes the liddle chiply-shits like zits off a ladie's facial mudpack - dry - no longer sloppy.

    Now yah put it somewhere safe to dry, shink, firm-up even more and it doesn't NEED half the saved-up advertising "local news" flyers on the whole street to deal with. Yer poor suffering driveway, shop entrance apron, or floor still looks good as well.

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    I'm glad I read this thread, I just acquired a 10EE and will use this information to inspect and clean my jewel. I love these machines and was thrilled to get mine in it's abandoned state. So far I've been super happy with my observations so far. Best of luck to you and your project. She's a good looking 10EE. I'm restoring mine to Hammered Silver color I found under the name plate.

    Jim

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    Quote Originally Posted by ShopShed View Post
    I'm glad I read this thread, I just acquired a 10EE and will use this information to inspect and clean my jewel. I love these machines and was thrilled to get mine in it's abandoned state. So far I've been super happy with my observations so far. Best of luck to you and your project. She's a good looking 10EE. I'm restoring mine to Hammered Silver color I found under the name plate.

    Jim
    Not a BAD choice, and believe it or not the "RustOleum" version of it is both uncommonly easy to use, forgiving of primer (or NO primer) shortcomings, and tougher and more durable than it has any right to be for a modest spend and not a lot of time to apply well, brush, mini-roller, spray or combination of...but...

    .. a colour also unfortunately too DAMNED close to the far LESS durable version Horror-Fright has largely adopted for various degrees of goods, ("goods"?) ....well "kauf" or "merchandise" anyway, serviceable "enough" or not-so-much.

    You want a trace of a more genteel version?

    Ditzler should have "mica slate metallic" as graces a slowly aging but still elegant dowager empress of a long-wheelbase mini-limo .. my 2005 Jaguar XJ8"L".

    There are several other rather elegant metallic charcoal greys "out there in four-wheeler land" as might be even better.

    Not as if the total surface area needs all that much OF "whatever" you chose, is it? Pint could do a frugal man. Quart is plenty, a gallon and you are doing matching accessories, yah?

    The "good stuff" doesn't cost a lot for as little as you need for the TOP coat.

    Page Two:

    Benjamin-Moore ain't the cheapest of paints, but they do know their chemistry.

    "Super Spec" primer, then same family single-component, and touch-uppable years LATER top coat has another advantage.

    Not "metallic", but ....it is every bit as tintable as interior house paint, and not ordinarily any further away as to go-fetch vs HAZMAT shipping-in premium costs.

    2 Gal worth. It JFW.

    PS: Hammered silver metallic is probably NOT a Monarch Tool Works OEM paint. More likely this puppy has been reworked once already.

    Not that it matters. Your shift on duty as servant, your colour.

    Each succeeding generation of minders to that 10EE can pick their own colour.

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    I'm pretty sure that your lathe was painted in a solid grey color. The 'hammered' look on the paint you found under a number plate is most likely that original paint with random stains or chemical reactions from layers of coolant and solvents trapped against the paint by the number plate..

    But, paint her the colors you like and enjoy, it's YOUR lathe.. !!

    Any chance of some recent photos of your lathe with some rust removed and a clean up?

    Show a photo of the connection box located behind the center door in the base.. and a photo of the wiring and name plate next to the wiring box..
    From the plate and wiring in the box we can determine if the late was running on 240vac 3ph or 440vac 3ph..

    Do you have 3ph in your shop? or do you use a RPC to make 3ph?

    DualValve

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    I got a quote for a highly recommended shop to regrind the bed ways for $1200, so for me plus shipping each way, going to cost about $2000-2200.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dinotom View Post
    I got a quote for a highly recommended shop to regrind the bed ways for $1200, so for me plus shipping each way, going to cost about $2000-2200.
    Fair-decent price.

    We've seen "a few" down under $900, but... that was a while back.

    Not hard to pay double or triple your quote, and transport is always extra.

    Take a look at how many MORE surfaces a 10EE owns besides just the ones up-top.

    "Personally" all I want is the front vee-way and it's mating rear flat.

    My reality is that the TS isn't of much importance to me when I can simply move the tip of the centre and even then only when I must.

    Which isn't all that often, given I drill on a drillpress whenever possible, use the carriage, not TS, only if drilling on the lathe cannot be avoided entirely.

    When only one set of ways needs attention?

    I don't have to strip the bed from the base, nor even pull the HS.

    High tedium costs for scraping, BUT.. the saddle, cross, and compound need that in any case, AND..

    Zero disassembly/reassembly hassle, HS or bed to base - only the saddle has to come off.

    Zero shipping prep or bothway freight for the bed.

    So far? Well.... "compensating" on a worn 10EE is soooo much easier than on a War One surplus Niles was, dawn of the 1960's, I simply haven't had to make it a priority..yet.

    Worn, and worn HARD 10EE is still able to do better work than a brand-new Asian Delusion or an honest, but Iron-Deficient South Bent class JR HS training-aid.

    And then.. the HBX-360-BC doesn't have enough wear to even worry about, so...

    Grind 'er if you can.

    But scraping ain't hard ... just deadly tedious. Mind.. it IS permitted to take a break, do a little of it each day... or week.

    So long as you JF DO it ...... fotos AFTERWARDS, if any.... rather than get into endless discussion and argument over how WRONG you are meant to be off having wandered into the wrong church by some tragic accident and failed to atone for your sins by spending more on training courses than the lathe - two more, plus a mill - is even worth.

    Screw that. Just buy the DVD and g'dewit.


  10. #89
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    Several years ago, the price for a factory re-paint was $4000. Lathes are not easy to paint and have them look good.
    My 1983ee was ordered with Glidden Glid-Guard machine buffed paint, it has turned brittle and flakes off. Another ee I have, a 1951 mfg model-no threading, has really rough castings, the machine was made at the lowest cost.
    My local paint suppliers have very little in stock for painting machinery, I have been using factory paint from the IH/Case dealer, they have a fairly dark grey that has held up well for me, and they have it in quarts.

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    Quote Originally Posted by donie View Post
    My local paint suppliers have very little in stock for painting machinery, I have been using factory paint from the IH/Case dealer, they have a fairly dark grey that has held up well for me, and they have it in quarts.
    Not a big risk. All of it is "touch up'able" as well - a basic benefit many two-component exotic coatings are dead-lousy at.

    So... among the better value-for-money lines are the paints made for most agricultural machinery.

    Their machinery might sit year-round, all weather under an open shed, or even out in the weather, naked. Fertilizers, abrasive soils, the odd fuel or lube spill or leak, not to mention animal waste are never long absent.

    The paints generally do their damn job, 'coz the farmers don't have a lot of time nor money to waste on trivia, would rather the paint last longer than the machine itself.

    That said, Greys are good, Ivory, maybe. John-Deere green is a stretch, and Allis-Chalmers Persian Orange .... on a 10EE?

    Too close to Horror-Fright cheap-orange! Could get yah positioned under my AB/5s drillpress to pocket yer ass for press-fit and dutch-keyed inserts of an enhanced ration of basic respect!


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    Congratulations on getting this fine machine and that the bed is in nice shape. That sure was an interesting optical illusion in the photo of the ways.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DualValve View Post
    I'm pretty sure that your lathe was painted in a solid grey color. The 'hammered' look on the paint you found under a number plate is most likely that original paint with random stains or chemical reactions from layers of coolant and solvents trapped against the paint by the number plate..

    But, paint her the colors you like and enjoy, it's YOUR lathe.. !!

    Any chance of some recent photos of your lathe with some rust removed and a clean up?

    Show a photo of the connection box located behind the center door in the base.. and a photo of the wiring and name plate next to the wiring box..
    From the plate and wiring in the box we can determine if the late was running on 240vac 3ph or 440vac 3ph..

    Do you have 3ph in your shop? or do you use a RPC to make 3ph?

    DualValve
    Mr Dual Valve, I have American Rotary 20hp phase converter, but I wired up the machine for 240v single phase.

    The cheapest quote I got for grinding was $6700, that was with the labor to disassemble, grind, scrape, turcite, realign, and reassemble. The second quote was north of 10k.

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    Back onto the machine, I have gotten the machine to run and discovered the left tube is dead. I ordered a set of Solid-State tube replacements from SC, looking forward to them.

    My second issue is with the power contactor, when I hit the "on button" it pulls but will not stay latched. After about 5 attenmps she usually latches and the machine runs as good as it can on one tube, I am not running the machine to make parts, just to test it.

    I tried cleaning the power contactor contacts with a burnisher, didn't help. Also tried rotating the contacts on the FA relay and QSD/DB (worn spot) and that also didn't help. Any suggestions?

    Thanks,

    Marco

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    Marco: your mention of a quote to regrind a lathe, are you considering regrinding this 10ee lathe? Your measurement when you inspected it [pre-purchase] indicated that it had very, very little wear.
    Maybe you were replying to the question from a previous post?

    Regarding your oiling system.. I finally found time to remove the TA, and compound and cross slide. I found that my lathe had been reground. The way-surfaces on the underside of the saddle have been built back up with what appears to be Moglice. The lathe went through a thorough rebuild, and repowering in 1993. My threading and feed rods are as close to dead center in their bores in the apron as I and see or attempt to measure.

    Regarding the oil pump: I confirmed by looking down into the open apron that the square dial lathes do have an eccentric on one of the feed-rod driven gears as well as on the left/right carriage handle's shaft.. So setting up the feed to run, will operate the apron pump.
    My pump was NOT pumping.

    When I first checked oner the lathe, before I purchased it , it appeared to have Vactra or some oil in the apron. but like so often happens the lens was stained and only appeared to have oil in it.. So the pump had sat dry for ??? years.. I believe the check valve on the pump was stuck open with dried up lubricant.

    I removed the sump and pump from the apron and sure enough the check valve on the pump was stuck open, I blew several solvents through it both ways, then dunked it in a jar with solvents. An hour or so later I blew it out again. I verified that it was now working. And just to make sure, I used a magnifying glass and light to inspect the captive check-ball in the valve.. I rotated it around and did not find any pits or remaining grunge on the ball, I reinstalled the pump and sump.. My sump did not have any gasket, only a sealant on the mating surfaces.

    Before I reinstalled the pump, I dunked the filter end in a container of Vactra, and manually operated the pump, it pumped well, and I filled the short line from the check valve to the elbow fitting on the apron bottom. In order to prime the apron, I also filled the drilling in the apron from the elbow to the apron-saddle mating seal. And removed the metering valve from the lube-distribution 'cup' that has the ball of string in it..

    I then spent 20+ minutes spinning the carriage wheel..The apron was off the lathe so no spinning feed rod available. I though my arm was going to fall off, but I would occasionally see a bubble come out of the two open locations that I was watching.. And eventually Vactra showed up in both locations..

    These apron pumps have a pump shaft-piston only about ? .200" if that.. and the stroke is only ? 1/2" or maybe less, so with the delay and loss of efficiency of the check valve opening and closing, the lack of actual seals on the shaft-piston, the amount of oil delivered from the pump with each stroke is not much more that a drop or so.
    We do need reliable oil supply but we don't want too much or we'd be refiling the pint or two of Vactra in the apron sump every few hours.. My round dial machine's pump is the same.. a good tight, not worn pump, and a pumping rate that is adequate..

    When I prepare the saddle for reinstalling on the bed and bolting it to the apron I will manually with a pump-oiling can fill the oil supply tube from the apron's inlet port to the distribution manifold. and I will see if I can force some Vactra through the manifold and delivery lines to the various way-oiling ports..

    Even with the above priming of the oil lines and passageways, I'm sure it will take a considerable time to pump Vactra through to all the ways, and purge any air bubbles.. So I will power up the lathe and feed rod and let 'er run until the cross-slide way ports start showing oil. and until I can verify I have oil under the saddle/carraige and the bed's ways.

    I found only a very light amount of dark residue on the bottom of the sump and the filter was like new, I cleaned it anyway. and only a little bit of swarf elsewhere in the saddle or apron..

    This square dial apron has a nice cast aluminum cover over the feed-rod worm gear and brass driven gear. and it was immaculate, not one chip in the worm gear sump. My round dial was packed with swarf and hardened old old, so the cover works very well keeping the worm gear protected. .

    DualValve.

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    Quote Originally Posted by donie View Post
    Several years ago, the price for a factory re-paint was $4000. Lathes are not easy to paint and have them look good.
    My 1983ee was ordered with Glidden Glid-Guard machine buffed paint, it has turned brittle and flakes off. Another ee I have, a 1951 mfg model-no threading, has really rough castings, the machine was made at the lowest cost.
    My local paint suppliers have very little in stock for painting machinery, I have been using factory paint from the IH/Case dealer, they have a fairly dark grey that has held up well for me, and they have it in quarts.

    I have had good results using one coat of self-etching primer (works well on cast iron a nd aluminum) followed by one coat of automotive grade primer. Primers can be applied either from rattle cans or HVLP spraying, I prefer the latter but do either, time dependent. From here you can use any kind of paint you want BUT, enamels are notoriously slow curing. Hardener and flow enhancers are a must. There are an abundance of high quality tutorial videos on YouTube on automotive painting (you are essentially painting a cast iron car). If you have a lathe, you most certainly have a compressor, HVLP spray kits can be had for very reasonable money from Eastwood and the like, or buy quality lightly used on Ebay as I do. Trust me, spraying with an HVLP gun Is VERY satisfying once you've learned how to do it correctly and that doesn't take long with a little practice.

    IMO...The paint job come out much better and will last much longer

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    Dualvalve, thank you for that information. I have no intention of grinding my ways but I wanted to have an idea of the cost before purchasing my lathe. I wanted to explore the route of a "fix'r up 10ee". I am glad I went with this 10ee, once the oiling and electronics are squared away I think she will provide great service with a cool back story as well.

    I have decided to remove the apron because I think it would be a good idea to replace the metering units. I am 100% certain they are original, one of the vacuum tubes was hand dated "1965"...

    I will follow your lead and prime the lines, pump, and orifices. There should also be an oil line to half nut correct?

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    On a happier note, a few years back I purchased a Monarch for my brother at an auction. He never got it running and eventually traded it for credit towards a Mori. But he kept an accessory from the machine, a "trav-a-dial". So I convinced him to give it to me today.

    He also lent me his nearly new Dorian Tool SDN25AXA tool holding set, so I should be ready to make chips once the unit is all back together.

    img-7059.jpg
    img-7060.jpg

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    Marco: On your lathe's main contactor being stubborn to engage and hold: check the voltage of the center winding in your main contactor. On the black taped windings is imprinted a voltage. Usually the imprint is black on black, so I have to use a flashlight aimed from the side to attempt to see the imprinted numbers.

    In your case it should be 220v. It could be 440v. if so, it will have much less than normal magnetic force to pull in the contractor.
    If it is 440v, I think you could use a 220v-to-440v single phase transformer to up the voltage to this winding, but I'm not sure.

    On my good round dial, powered by a RPC, the contactor would also sort of 'stutter' and not stay engaged at times. I eventually found that the power cord had a loose connection in one of the twist-lock cord ends. So lots of possible causes.

    On another round dial, very worn out, it will be a dedicated tool post grinder lathe eventually, on my initial attempts to run the lathe on 220v 3phase, I had to manually engage the contactor with a wood dowel, the start button would not pull in the contacts But the MG unit would run.. and the contactor would hold once manually engaged.. With some more head scratching, I figured out that it's a 440vac machine.. and when I then added a 220v-to-440v 3ph transformer in the power supply, the main contractor worked fine.

    DualValve



    DualValve.

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    Dualvalve, all of the coils on the contactors have small paper tags that read "115V, 60 cycles".

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    Hi Marco, Put a voltmeter on the power to the center coil of your main power contactor. See if it is getting at least 110-115vac.

    Since your start button is pulling in the contactor, but it won't stay held in, there could be a problem with the connections or contacts in the 'stop' button switch .

    The stop button is a normally closed [making a connection] switch. It completes the circuit for the winding that holds the main contractor closed. If there is corrosion, a loose wire, or similar problem with this switch or it's wiring, then you will definitely have trouble getting the main contactor to stay closed..

    The switch is relatively accessible, I'd take it out and check the switch's continuity and resistance You can jumper around the switch it see if that actually is the problem before getting in too deep.

    DualValve..


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