10EE front bearing spacer setscrew missing

PLC · Apr 10, 2022

Hi,

After a couple years off my 10ee project, I am getting close to finally painting the base. While attending to some of the final details, chasing threads, reapplying new masking, etc, I noticed that the set screw that runs in the channel on the outer spindle bearing preload spacer (EE1285) is missing. I went through my old photos, and I can confirm that it has not been in the lathe since I have take possession of it.

I pulled the set screw from my later model 10ee and installed it, however when installed the head protrudes from the headstock, which makes me think the outer preload spacer has rotated. I am curious though if anyone could measure the length of the pin and let me know. Maybe the old ones are shorter?

The spindle runout is 0.0002" which I know isn't great for the newer 10ee's but this is a 1948, and I recall seeing the same runout on the inspection card of a similar vintage 10ee.

I am thinking that I really should just pull the spindle at least to check the channel is aligned with the hole. Thanks for any input.

I currently have a red plug in the hold to keep debris out although, probably at the point given the time that it has been missing.

Cal Haines · Apr 11, 2022

Are you sure that it's missing? There are two setscrews in that hole, one dog-point that actually engages the slot in the front bearing spacer and one that's just there to act as a plug at the top of the hole.

Cal

PLC · Apr 11, 2022

Hi Cal,

Yep, it is definitely missing. I was able to see back there with a better flashlight. I can also see that the slot is not aligned with the hole either. I pulled the dog-point set screw (only one from my 67' 10ee), and I can see the slot through the hole. I can't see the slot on the 48'. A little hard to explain so I made this quick sketch as viewed when looking in from the screw hole.

I don't suppose that Monarch changed the preload spacer design at some point. I assume that all spacers have the slot running the length of it.

Cal Haines · Apr 11, 2022

As far as I know, all of the spacers have the slot.

Have you tried measuring the depths of the holes on both machines? That should allow you to confirm that you're hitting the OD of the spacer on the 48' and not the bottom of the slot.

Cal

PLC · Apr 11, 2022

I did by using the dog point set screw. I pulled it from the the 67' and tried it in the 48'. Sure enough, it bottomed out and and still stuck out about an 1/8" from the headstock casting. On the 67', the pin sits in the about 1/8" below the surface of the headstock. In my original post, I was unable to get a clear view into the back of the hole so it was hard to tell if the slot was aligned.

Sounds like pulling the spindle is becoming more and more likely. At least at this point, I have the belts and pulley already off.

PLC · Apr 11, 2022

With that said, from other threads it doesn't appear to be that difficult. One thing I am a little unclear of, do you need to back out the clutch gear bushing set screws? From another thread it sounds like they are to position the bronze bushing, however he mentions the process to set them in the installation notes. Implicating that they were back-up/removed when pulling the spindle. Any info here would be much appreciate.

Here is a like to the thread. Post 51.

https://www.practicalmachinist.com/...pindle-removal-219128/index3.html#post3396944

Cal Haines · Apr 11, 2022

You shouldn't need to mess with the clutch gears, in fact, I would avoid it.

The drawing in that thread is for an inline-exciter era headstock. Monarch apparently had a lot of issues with the bushing and modified it several times over the years. The drawing in the 1965 manual (see sticky) shows the setup for square-dials.

Cal

Cal Haines · Apr 11, 2022

Could you post a photo of the setscrew from the 67' machine, with a ruler for scale?

Older machines used two, off the shelf screws, but it sounds like the 67' has a custom screw.

Cal

PLC · Apr 11, 2022

Thanks Cal. The plan is to finish up painting the base as the poly filler, dust filled environment is very much inconducive with the spindle removal. I have been referencing all the threads that you have posted the headstock schematics with the color overlays. That makes understanding the schematics much easier. I can't thank you enough for your contributions.

PLC · Apr 11, 2022

Cal Haines said:
Could you post a photo of the setscrew from the 67' machine, with a ruler for scale?

Older machines used two, off the shelf screws, but it sounds like the 67' has a custom screw.

Cal

Absolutely. I will do that later this evening. The one for the 67' looks similar in length and design with the one found in this post.

https://www.practicalmachinist.com/...pindle-removal-219128/index3.html#post3393298

Cal Haines · Apr 11, 2022

You could maybe avoid removing the spindle by going in through the oil sight glass opening and probing the bottom of the spindle spacer using a piece of wire, bent into an 'L' shape. Try it on the 67' first to see that actually works and what it's supposed to feel like. If you can feel the opening on the 48' and it's about where it belongs, you should be OK.

Cal

PLC · Apr 11, 2022

I will try this tonight. If I am lucky, I will be able to feel the slot. I am a little confused with how to compare against of the 67' because the slot is already aligned with the hole. Is there another feature I can probe for on the spacer that I should be feeling for?

Cal Haines · Apr 11, 2022

I was suggesting trying the 67' first, just to make sure it works and to know what it should feel like. If and part of the opening on the 47' is to the bottom, you should be OK. If you can't feel it at all, that's a problem. It's nice that you have the 67', so you can compare things. Most of us aren't that lucky.

Cal

PLC · Apr 11, 2022

For those interested, here are a couple photos of the last shot of high build primer before I started finish sanding.

PLC · Apr 12, 2022

Hi Cal, here is the picture you requested of the set screw/pin for the outer preload spacer.

Cal Haines · Apr 12, 2022

Thanks. How does the diameter of the pin compare to the ID of the hole?

Cal

PLC · Apr 12, 2022

The hole looks like it is through drilled (Drill Size F) and tapped for 5/16 - 18 thread. The diameter of the pin is slightly smaller than the hole. I will take a measurement of the pin diameter tonight.

PLC · Apr 18, 2022

Cal, I still owe you a measurement of the pin diameter. I was able to get the base painted yesterday afternoon.

swatkins · Apr 22, 2022

Your set screw is exactly like the one on my 1990... There is only one screw on this machine... I just put the new donor spindle in the machine and I can say for sure the screw will sit about 1/8" above the casting when it is not in the slot.. When in the slot is is below the surface of the casting by about 1/8" On my YouTube channel there are videos of taking the spindle out and then putting it back in... I used a pick to align the slot perfectly which needs to be dead nuts on to fit in the slot.

My screw is still easily accessible if you want me to remove and measure it for you...

I would say that you don't have to take the spindle all the way out, once the front bearing clears the housing you can find the slot and reposition it..

PLC · Apr 22, 2022

Hi Steve,

Thanks for the help. I am one of your subscribers, and I have been following your $7000 mistake series on YouTube.

I just saw your last video on the reinstall and noticed how you were able to rotate the preload spacer with only the front bearing out. I understand exactly what you are describing and that will be my path forward.

Thanks again, the videos online have been a great help.

10EE front bearing spacer setscrew missing

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