Converting Monarch 10ee motor-generator 3-phase to single phase, Steelman method - Page 3
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  1. #41
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    Hi

    I am trying to make this three phase to single phase modification as you described in details above, but I am stuck in the removal of the fan impeller. You say that there are two alan-key bolts between the blades, but I don't see any in mine. I try to pull the impeller but it does not move at all. Is there a difference between MG models?

    Pier

  2. #42
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    As I recall on my motor there were two quarter 20 threaded holes. Just ran a couple quarter 20 bolt down those holes to press the impeller off.

    Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk

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    Thank you for the advice. I did manage to take the impeller off using the two bolts as you suggested, thank you. My two bolts holes however, are for a 5/16"-18 bolt.
    Next, (this weekend) is to wash everything and start removing the rotor and all other pieces in order to get access to the armature coils. This should be fun.

  4. #44
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    Message me if you have any questions. Glad to help.

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    Finished my conversion tests last night. Wired up and my MG starts and runs smoothly..... Even the right direction and I rarely win even at 50-50 odds.

    Sent via cell phone.

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    Procedure for balancing the 3rd leg?
    Is the proper procedure for balancing the three legs to do so under load or free spinning? Current in each leg is what is relevant not the actual voltages between the phases?

  7. #47
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    I am in the process of converting my 10ee from three phase to single phase 220V input using the information provided on this forum thread. I am almost ready to power up, but this weekend I just noticed a discrepancy on the wiring diagram that is provided here. It seems that you have the pins 1 and 2 on the SUPCO relay reversed, or the START and RUN capacitors are connected in the reverse order. Can anybody that followed these conversion instructions please confirm if that diagram is correct? The assumption here is that the SUPCO relay will disconnect terminal #2 from #1 once operational regime is attained by the MG unit. This is my understanding from the instructions given on the SUPCO diagram.

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    Holy Jeezus Krist!!! you are right! I F'ed up my drawing and reversed #1 and #2! I just dragged my arse out to the shop to double check. I hooked it up correctly but documented it wrong! Good catch.

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flail View Post
    So here is the schematic I drew up of my components. Wish I had something simple to draw up schematics with a Mac. The relay basically parallels the start with the run capacitor for a second until the motor comes up to speed. When voltage get to about 310 it drops out the start cap. As a fail safe it will also drop out after a short period of time 1-1.5 seconds. As a test I put the lathe in forward (DC motor turned on) and the motor started anyway. This suggests this is not an iffy conversion if the motor-generator can start with a load on it.

    For all those looking at this: Good catch by Pier. The 300uf capacitor goes to supco potential relay terminal #1 and the 60uf should go to terminal #2.

    reference: http://www.supco.com/web/supco_live/...PR_man_001.pdf

  10. #50
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    Default First Time running with single phase modifications

    Quote Originally Posted by Flail View Post
    For all those looking at this: Good catch by Pier. The 300uf capacitor goes to supco potential relay terminal #1 and the 60uf should go to terminal #2.

    reference: http://www.supco.com/web/supco_live/...PR_man_001.pdf
    Well, here we go. This past weekend I finally decided to put power to the MG after checking all the connections a million times, everything was a go at the end. In this test, only the MG was powered without the Exciter in place (i.e. no belt was installed). As soon as I turned the breaker to the ON position, the MG started right away and reached full speed within approximately one second. I kept powering OFF and ON several times to see if this was repeatable, and YES it does work. I then let the unit run for about 10 minutes and everything was normal. At this point, I was also measuring some of the voltages across certain terminals, and to my surprise, I found the voltages across both Run and Start capacitors were 406 Volts AC. I quickly power down the unit because my CAPs are rated at 400 VAC.

    The MG temperature was quite normal (i.e. not even warm). At this point I went back and checked all the connections again, and everything is in accordance with the above schematics.

    I then proceeded to test number 2, where I included the Exciter (by just installing the belt on the pulleys). When I switched the breaker ON, the MG/Exciter started normally within a second the full speed was reached, but in the next second or so, the MG made a winding-down noise and the breaker popped just after that.

    I waited a few minutes, and then repeated the test and the same thing happened.

    Now, I am quite stuck because I am not sure what could be wrong.

    Here are some of the parameters:

    The single phase supply voltage is 240 Volts
    the breaker is a two pole 20 AMPs

    The potential realay voltage is set at: 250 Volts
    The run capacitor is 60 uF 400VAC
    the start capacitors are 2X 150 uF 400VAC in parallel with each other to obtain the 300 uF.

    Before doing this modification the lathe was working with the three phase power input with no problems.

    The fact that the MG works by itself should be an indication that the internal modification was successful.

    Does anybody have experienced a similar situation?

  11. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by pier View Post
    Well, here we go. This past weekend I finally decided to put power to the MG after checking all the connections a million times, everything was a go at the end. In this test, only the MG was powered without the Exciter in place (i.e. no belt was installed). As soon as I turned the breaker to the ON position, the MG started right away and reached full speed within approximately one second. I kept powering OFF and ON several times to see if this was repeatable, and YES it does work. I then let the unit run for about 10 minutes and everything was normal. At this point, I was also measuring some of the voltages across certain terminals, and to my surprise, I found the voltages across both Run and Start capacitors were 406 Volts AC. I quickly power down the unit because my CAPs are rated at 400 VAC.

    The MG temperature was quite normal (i.e. not even warm). At this point I went back and checked all the connections again, and everything is in accordance with the above schematics.

    I then proceeded to test number 2, where I included the Exciter (by just installing the belt on the pulleys). When I switched the breaker ON, the MG/Exciter started normally within a second the full speed was reached, but in the next second or so, the MG made a winding-down noise and the breaker popped just after that.

    I waited a few minutes, and then repeated the test and the same thing happened.

    Now, I am quite stuck because I am not sure what could be wrong.

    Here are some of the parameters:

    The single phase supply voltage is 240 Volts
    the breaker is a two pole 20 AMPs

    The potential realay voltage is set at: 250 Volts
    The run capacitor is 60 uF 400VAC
    the start capacitors are 2X 150 uF 400VAC in parallel with each other to obtain the 300 uF.

    Before doing this modification the lathe was working with the three phase power input with no problems.

    The fact that the MG works by itself should be an indication that the internal modification was successful.

    Does anybody have experienced a similar situation?
    Did you ever get this resolved? I just picked up a 1940's MG Machine and I'm thinking about doing this conversion.

  12. #52
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    Default 3-Phase to Single Phase conversion

    Quote Originally Posted by erniecombs View Post
    Did you ever get this resolved? I just picked up a 1940's MG Machine and I'm thinking about doing this conversion.
    No, so far it is not very good (it does not work at my end). I am still investigating why it does not run as described by the previous threads.

    After purchasing a couple of AMP meters on e-bay, (they gave me quite erratic readings of current), I decide to get a new Fluke and I took several measurement of the winding currents, and here is what I get.

    Please refer to the schematic diagram listed above in the original thread.

    A) Measured current into winding (1) to (4) in series with (5) to (2) was 6.8 Amps
    B) Measured current into winding (7) to (10) in series with (11) to (8) was 6.55 Amps
    C) Measured current into winding (12) to (9) series with (6) to (3) was 34 Amps.

    Measurement C) above is way too high, and I am afraid of burning out the winding, so I keep the running tests very short.

    One thing that I noticed was also the connection in the schematic diagram above does not agree with what "H.A.S"
    described in their schematics, in that the connections of (12) and (3) are reversed in the above schematic as compared to "H.A.S" schematic. Now I am not sure if this makes a difference but I have not tried to reverse them myself yet, until I understand what is actually going on.

    Hopefully someone with more experience can give us a bit of guidance here.


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