Dave's '56 10ee conservation/restoration thread - Page 2
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  1. #21
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    Default New noise that i really dont like...

    so after some light work it seems to have developed a low buzz. after a whole lot of crawling about first here, then on you tube i found a video by pbungum demonstrating a similar noise which then led me back here to this post..

    How to determine the condition of bearings in a 10ee, and other questions

    ...he chased his noise from the bottom to the top of his machine, his description of it in his post is very similar including it being especially audible at the center and back of the spindle reservoir and less so with ear pressed over the bearing cavities. I fully expected to find the noise when i popped the spindle cover but, no luck. He only got rid of it by changing out his front spindle bearings...but..his spindle started out notchy, and mine is pretty much flawless, as near as i can tell(though i havent done much careful testing for runout yet, my surface finish seems ok and hand spinning is very smooth and nearly silent). Also, in the end he found a bunch of metal inside his front bearing retaining plate(the part that the nose sticks out of that bolts to the headstock as i understand it)that may have been the culprit, so i cant help wonder if i might have a similar problem.

    Here is a short vid of it in action. you'll hear it kick in as it gets up to about 4 or 5 hundred rpm, about 7 or 8 seconds in(lot of background noise so you may have to turn it up)...
    YouTube
    and here you can hear it very clearly with my phone held at the top of the headstock
    YouTube

    so, what do yall think? am i making any sense at all? my first thought, and what i was going to do anyway, is to give it a good flush. any advice dealing with the sight glass(that is where the front spindle drains,right?) wondering if that is the kind of thing where i need to have a replacement gasket ready because the old one is going to disintegrate...also any tips on how to not make a total mess? have never drained out of a sight glass before.

    and if that doesn't solve the problem, whats next? after reading pbungums adventures i am feeling a bit nervous. i dont have either his level of skill or equipment, and while im more than willing to learn it would mean lots o downtime and...this lathe has ruined me for others
    help me oh wise ones!

  2. #22
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    Pull your tack out and see if the noise goes away.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vetro View Post
    .. give it a good flush. any advice dealing with the sight glass(that is where the front spindle drains,right?) wondering if that is the kind of thing where i need to have a replacement gasket ready because the old one is going to disintegrate...also any tips on how to not make a total mess? have never drained out of a sight glass before.

    Ok .. you can order a full set of sight glass replacements and gaskets from Monarch. AFAIK the current ones are made of Lexan polycarbonate plastic. Which works better than the original glass ones.

    Some PM members have purchased high-grade wrist-watch crystals, which can be had in tough "mineral glass".

    I was impatient. I nicked the edges of two Horror-Fright 3 AAA mini-maglites. The ones they sell in red, silver, blue, black - and stole the lexan disk they use for a lense. It happens to fit the 10EE. The maglites still work if yah don't butcher the rim too badly, as the LED's don't really need a lense.

    That trick is always there for quick and dirty but buying them from Monarch is less hassle! Two round-dial 10EE would use-up a lotta mini-maglites!

    Horror-Fright also had an adjustable "pin spanner" wrench. It fits the screw holes of the 10EE sight-glass bezel once you pull all three screws.

    You need "something like this" - my Bergeon watch case BACK tool also fits, and H-F carry a cheap copy of that as well - because ..

    ..the way you get them out is by ROTATING the bezel to break the bond of the old cork gasket. Do NOT "pry" at the edges. No need. Just twist.

    As to mess? Not right away. There is only around 3 ounces of DTE light lube in the front chamber, 4 ounces of DTE Light in the rear. if your sight glasses are obscured? There may be NONE!

    Before you start flushing, you can stick a bit of tubing into each hole and guide the outcoming flush away from the body of the lathe. Or just let it run down the body of the lathe and catch it with wadded toweling. Not really a big deal. It isn't battery-acid.

    You will be working with maybe a PINT, total, of "virgin" water white Kerosene, maybe a quart, unlikely a gallon. DO purchase the "good stuff" in tins, not something very easily contaminated in transfer out of the pump at Exxon, Shell, or wotever.

    DO NOT recycle ANY used fluid!

    Catch it and save it - but for some other purpose.

    Nothing should go IN but "virgin" fluids, from clean containers, by clean transfer means, with clean hands.

    For filling, I "dedicated" a common turkey-baster, stainless tube, not Nylon. It lives in a double Ziplock bag to keep it clean between fill cyles. Pump oiler is bagged. All my lubes are bagged as well.

    You do NOT need airborne grit or dust off yer grinder going in with lube oils, 10EE or any other machine tool.

    I went anal over getting all the sludge out of mine BEFORE splashing around any of the accumulated metallic particles as well.

    First "soaked" it with ATF to soften the sludge AND sort of bind it up in the ATF as a carrier. Then dragged out sludge GENTLY with ribbed plastic thingy, tiny bottle brushes, a bronze brush out of a gun cleaning kit, lint-free bore swabs, etc. -- until there was no more black smut and all it could reach was clean.

    THEN used a hand pump-oiler with a tube added to feed in clean fluid.

    - Flushed first with ATF. More than once. Less risk of "splash" carryng crap up into the bearing rollers and cages.

    - Then later flushes with Kerosene. More than once.

    Final TWO flushes, one after an hour's running, were done with clean DTE Light to get any Kerosene residue out.

    Remember we are using only a few OUNCES each refill, here, so it isn't that costly to go the extra mile to get off to a good start.

    Rest of yer life..... it gets faster as you are doing this once every six months - before it even gets dirty - not after 20 to 50 years of neglect as a "company" lathe, not a "personal" lathe.

    Now. as the sight-glasses are the drains, I used two 'O' rings on mine instead of the OEM cork gaskets.

    Easier to open and close that way. Sizes? Who knows?

    Just open the "assortment" box and see what fits.

    Small one fits disk to hole in casting, larger one fits disk to bezel. Kind of "intuitive" when you have it in yer hands.

    PS:

    Your noise may be coming from the complex geartrain that drives the tachometer, or "tach" not "tack".

    If you need to localize sounds, use a CONTACT mic with a probe - (see "mechanic's stethoscope") ... and feed it to a pee cee or handheld with a graphic analyzer application, same ordinary "audio band" we listen to (alleged) music in, so it is probably "already THERE" on most 'puting devices that can play or reocrd "music" at all.

    The curves and spikes will show you, visually, what the ear will not easily pick-up out of the overall noise.

    And you can save it to file and email it or otherwose share it easier than you can make a video. Audio-ONLY files are waaay SMALLER than full-motion video.

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  5. #24
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    Default Thanks Thermite!

    Thanks so much for the detailed response! incredibly helpful! ordered up a fresh o ring assortment, some bottle brushes and a baster!

    What is the easiest way to determine if its the tach? do i have to pull it? any tips on that process?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vetro View Post
    What is the easiest way to determine if its the tach? do i have to pull it? any tips on that process?
    Pass. One of my two is already trashed. I'll be removing the other. They just are not yet any sort of "priority", so all I know is that there are "lots of" shafts and gears "in there". It is probably covered somewhere, "Right here, on PM".

    For me, the tacho is in the wrong place to be easily read whilst "in the cut" and far too small to read well. And the older ones read only in forward, anyway.

    A modern one (I like ANALOG, not digital) can actually be USEFUL ....and needs no mechanical drive system at all.

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  8. #26
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    Use a stick up against the tach and the other end to you r ear if it is louder at the tach then the bearings it could be the tach making the noise. You just need to disconnect the drive

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  10. #27
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    well, pulled the tach and no luck. even disengaged the bevel gear at the back to no avail. havent tried messing with the fiber gears yet. flushed the central reservoir yesterday and will make a pin spanner to crack those sight glasses today so i can flush the bearing cavities....but tbh, i kinda doubt it will make a difference. i have refilled twice now with fresh oil and let it run in both directions for a while and it did nothing. in the process i discovered that my feed rod is pretty badly bent,
    YouTube
    i can only assume the riggers put their chain over instead of under(%@#$!!!)
    so, whats my next move? ...and can i keep working on it in the meantime? everything is functoning and i need the machine but i cant help worrying that there is a shred of metal tearing into my bearings while the bent feed rod borks my apron up...but both of those issues seem like they might require major surgery for which i have limited time and resources...ill do what needs doing but im in this for a work horse not a presentation piece and down time stings a bit...any suggestions welcome, thanks!


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