What's new
What's new

Did Monarch ever offer an MT4 tailstock for the 12CK lathe?

paroikoi

Aluminum
Joined
Oct 2, 2014
Location
Jonesboro, AR, USA
Hello all. I recently bought a used Monarch 12CK lathe and was given a second 12CK in much worse shape. From everything I've read online, the 12CK should have an MT3 taper in the tailstock. The free 12CK I got has this. However, the one I bought has what looks to be an MT4 taper. I assumed that maybe the buyer (IBM in this case), had reamed out the original MT3 taper to MT4. However, I noticed that the "nose" on the MT4 tailstock is about an inch longer than the MT3 tailstock. Does this look original to all of you? Could someone have taken an MT4 tailstock from a larger Monarch and modified it to fit this lathe? I seem to have read that the 16" Monarchs were the smallest to come with an MT4 tailstock. This tailstock looks virtually identical to a regular 12CK MT3 tailstock. I took photos of both tailstocks and will provide comparisons. In each pair of photos, the first is from the MT4 tailstock.

I called Monarch today to ask if they could look up the lathe and tell me if it came with a nonstandard tailstock. They looked it up and said it was only noted to have come with a Jacobs chuck, tool post, taper attachment and steady rest (long gone). No mention of anything special about the tailstock...

Thanks,
Josh


IMG_20200401_135912.jpg
IMG_20200401_135925.jpg
IMG_20200401_134654.jpg
IMG_20200401_134712.jpg
 
Check out the 1934 12 and 14 brochures on VM - 12" had MT3 in 1.75 quill and 14" had MT4 in 2.375 quill

You never know how much fooling around - even modifying to fit - went on in the last 80 odd years
 
Thanks, John. I just looked at those brochures per your recommendation. Both of mine have a 2.375" quill diameter, even the MT3 quill. Both of mine also have the tailstock design shown in the 12" brochure, not the 14" design with the internal "web" sweeping down and toward the back. My MT4 tailstock really seems to have been intentionally made by Monarch for a 12CK. It seems identical to the MT3 tailstock except for the longer nose (the stubby front protrusion I measured in the first 2 photos of my 2nd post above).
 
I also note per the brochures that the tailstock base length gets longer with larger lathes. Both of mine have the same base length as each other. Only the nose and the quill seem different.
 
Thanks, Mike. Any chance you could provide a side view photo showing how much the nose protrudes, or measure it the way I did in my second batch of photos?
 
Thanks, Mike. Do you know the history of yours? Did someone just ream out an MT3 quill? Yours seems to have the shorter nose like my MT3, not the longer nose like my MT4. The middle one in the photo below is my MT4 tailstock. The nose is notably longer than the other two.

Screen Shot 2020-04-01 at 7.52.11 PM.jpg
 
I know the machine was sold new to Westinghouse Electric in Beaver PA. I purchased it from a shop that was closing near Dayton, OH. They did not get it from Westinghouse. That is about all I know. I do have the build sheet from Monarch and the tailstock is listed as K-12-32.
 
Not only is the nose longer on my MT4 tailstock, but the quill itself is longer. It really looks like this was done by Monarch, not a later modification...

IMG_20200402_110437.jpg
 
Given that the knock out slot is only a little further back (about 0.1") than on the MT3, maybe it's some other taper than an MT4? An MT4 is about an inch longer than an MT3. Any ideas on what other tapers are likely? The bore at the quill face (the large end of the taper) is also very slightly smaller than MT4. MT4 should be 1.231", but this is a very little bit smaller. It's hard to measure it precisely since the edge is rounded, but with my calipers set to 1.231", they are a little too wide.
 
I'll try to figure out a way to measure the inner diameter at the end of the taper and figure out if it really is just an MT4 and I'm not good at measuring.
 
Turn a piece of aluminum down little by little til it just goes through the small end and then measure diameter.
 








 
Back
Top