Electrical device on the back of EE10
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  1. #1
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    Default Electrical device on the back of EE10

    Can anyone tell me what this device is on the backside of my EE 10. I have pictures but don’t no how to post them with content.

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    Without photo you may never get an answer. if it looks like this it it's probably a transformer. I havn't investigated it yet. If its a large box there was and option to have all the electronic controls on the back for easier access.

    Posting a photo is done by clicking the framed photo box in the options above this box
    Typing content is a separat function. I may be misunderstanding your statement.

    Place your photo's in a file then use browse and click your photo then click upload file..


    20210221_104732.jpg

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    to post photo click circled icon in photo.
    inked20210221_115602_li.jpg


    then click ( From computer). Then click (browse)
    Then go to your photo file and click your photo. USE (JPG) format
    Then click open at bottom of page to return to (insert image page.
    . The file name should then be in the box.
    Then click (Upload file(s)). Then wait a minute for it to upload.. Be patient.
    . When file is uploaded it will take you back to the posting page.

    On my computer if I double click the photo in the posting box it gives an option to make image
    (full size)

    Sorry about the bad photos and chicken scratch writing.
    inked20210221_115901_li.jpg



    The box below is where it gives the option for full size image by double clicking the photo and choosing from thumbnail too the ( full size) option.

    These are photos of my monitor and why they are funcky.
    Double photo below was an error

    20210221_123132.jpg

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    Thanks mllud22! Very helpful post.
    Quote Originally Posted by mllud22 View Post
    ...
    Then go to your photo file and click your photo. USE (JPG) format
    ...
    Even though files with a ".JPG" extension and those with a ".JPEG" extension are essentially the same, the forum software treats them differently. If your pictures come from an iPhone or iPad, they probably have a ".JPEG" extension and won't post full size. To fix that, you need to go in with your file manager and change the extension, just like you would change the name of a file.

    Cal

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    bc118e9c-c38b-4690-af38-24bb9024dbe9.jpg60a79ba0-a3e1-4572-83b2-f66a0b70aa0c.jpg60a79ba0-a3e1-4572-83b2-f66a0b70aa0c.jpgcdcdd587-728c-414b-87cb-c9dad86263f1.jpgcdcdd587-728c-414b-87cb-c9dad86263f1.jpg60a79ba0-a3e1-4572-83b2-f66a0b70aa0c.jpg60a79ba0-a3e1-4572-83b2-f66a0b70aa0c.jpg

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    Default Photos of box on back of EE10

    box-back-lathe-.jpg
    box-back-lathe-.jpgcdcdd587-728c-414b-87cb-c9dad86263f1.jpg077a021b-c341-44ef-969c-02850fce073a.jpg60a79ba0-a3e1-4572-83b2-f66a0b70aa0c.jpgbc118e9c-c38b-4690-af38-24bb9024dbe9.jpg
    Device attached on the back of my EE10. Looks like the spindle rotation speed control. I have looked at several photos of EE10's for sale and they don't appear Mohave tis device. The knob on the out side controls the reostate. I moved it off of zero yesterday (about 10 degrees) and was running the carriage when I heard a "pop sound" shut down immediately and a small curl of smoke came up from the inside ( like a Lucas electric problem on an English car). Started up the next day ,with the knob turned to zero and haven't had any problems. Attached are several photos of the inside.

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    Maybe the reverse speed control for an ELSR?

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    It may be that(a speed controller for the ELSR ( I know the device at the far right hand side near operator, but what does ELSR stand for?). I don't have any control of the spindle speed in reverse. In the picture of the outside of the box the pointer is at about 50%. Over the years that I have owned it the pointer was at 0% ( I'm guessing at the % because there is no scale under the pointer). It was normally used in the mold making shop in our factory. The device looks like apart made by Monarch as it is very similar to the speed control on the front side of EE10.

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    Yes, that's the rare, rapid reverse option for ELSR (Electric LeadScrew Reverse). It can be used to allow the spindle to turn at a higher speed when backing out after a threading pass. Can you post a photo of the front of the machine?

    Cal

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    Ron

    Electric Lead Srcew Reverse.

    Hal

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    Cal, Do you have a picture of the proper knob, pointer and a plate under the knob that I could reproduce? Better yet if there is any originals I would like to purchase it.

    Ron [/B]

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    Ron, maybe you should contact Monarch and ask about it. The only VSR I know about used a small pot, the same as the speed control knob for forward. I am assuming that your machine is a MG not a WIAD? If so, it is the first MG 10EE I have seen that had VSR. Very cool. If you call Monarch, you can also ask them for a copy of the electrical wiring diagram for your machine, they should have that info on file.

    Here is a picture that shows the VSR controls used on a WIAD machine:

    10ee_elsr_endplate.jpg


    The button on the left has some rather involved wiring: it puts the pot on the right into the forward speed control circuit, so you can see what the speed is (the tach does not work in reverse).

    This is an excerpt from a circuit diagram that shows how VSR is wired. This may not be how yours is wired if you have an MG machine.

    vsr.jpg

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    Quote Originally Posted by rimcanyon View Post
    Ron, maybe you should contact Monarch and ask about it. The only VSR I know about used a small pot, the same as the speed control knob for forward. I am assuming that your machine is a MG not a WIAD? If so, it is the first MG 10EE I have seen that had VSR. Very cool. If you call Monarch, you can also ask them for a copy of the electrical wiring diagram for your machine, they should have that info on file.

    Here is a picture that shows the VSR controls used on a WIAD machine:

    10ee_elsr_endplate.jpg


    The button on the left has some rather involved wiring: it puts the pot on the right into the forward speed control circuit, so you can see what the speed is (the tach does not work in reverse).

    This is an excerpt from a circuit diagram that shows how VSR is wired. This may not be how yours is wired if you have an MG machine.

    vsr.jpg
    MG for sure.

    Physically larger variable resistors than WiaD & Modulars were needed for high wattage, high heat dissipation because they were directly in the respective Field circuits, generator Field (to control Armature power) or final-drive motor Field.

    Only ONE, rather than a duplicate PAIR, was needed for rapid reverse because it left the Armature power "as-set" for forward and simply allowed going deeper into Field Weakening than the "main" (forward direction) and common-shaft ganged Field power control was set to.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Boudreau View Post
    Cal, Do you have a picture of the proper knob, pointer and a plate under the knob that I could reproduce? Better yet if there is any originals I would like to purchase it.

    Ron [/B]
    As I said, this is a very rare option when it comes to motor/generator drive 10EEs; I'm only aware of three or four of them in existance. Here's a link to a thread that discusses the type of rapid/variable speed reverse that you have:
    1946 10ee

    Unfortunately, it doesn't have a good photo of the dial. I think I have one somewhere; I'll keep digging.

    What's the serial number and build date of your machine?

    Cal

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Boudreau View Post
    Cal, Do you have a picture of the proper knob, pointer and a plate under the knob that I could reproduce? Better yet if there is any originals I would like to purchase it.

    Ron [/B]
    Ron.. from Cal's note as to scarity, I doubt you'll be criticized by anyone still LIVING for a modest departure from the missing originals.

    I would use a common off-the shelf "percentage" type plate for the variable resistance. That would make returning to some prior tasking's setting easier than simply "high-low" with not even so much as a tick mark.

    Mind, if it works the way I THINK it works, the pushbutton just reverses direction such that the reverse settings remain in effect, not the "main" control RPM, but the spindle is powered forward so the mechanical tacho reads the RPM and one just dials in whatever is wanted.

    Twofold issue in my view is it is not easy to be back of the machine in many cases at all, and not easy if if one CAN be to see the tacho whilst holding down the over-ride momentary button AND twiddling the speed knob.

    Mirrors if not also smoke can be involved?



    You can improve on this by any of:

    - moving the box to the front side.

    - adding an ELECTRICAL mini-tacho readable at the rear and not needing the directional over-ride given those read in either spindle rotation direction,

    - ginning-up a 1, 2, or few "preset" mechanical detents or witness marks,

    or.. my suspicion as to how they were ACTUALLY used "in real life"?

    Set it up ONCE as a two-person team effort to suit whatever tasking a particular 10EE used it for AT ALL.. for its Day Job.

    Then LEAVE it that way for... perhaps the next fifty years?

    I cannot really get my arms around WHY they didn't build it into the front in the first place?

    There IS space enough, and even a suitable plate as could hold the goods, rear-mounted, controls through ... as a field swap-out.

    The panel right below the MG start/stop button box and bezel.

    2CW

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    Default Electrical device on the back of EE10

    data-plate.jpg

    front-ee10-37852-.jpg

    front.2-ee10-37852.jpg

    i am going to contact monarch to inquire as to the availability of operating instructions for the elsr speed control. Also if they havean original knob and pointer or st least a picture of it.

    I HOPE MY POSTS ARE GETTING BETTER.
    Last edited by Ron Boudreau; 02-25-2021 at 09:04 AM. Reason: ADDITIONAL THOUGHT

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Boudreau View Post
    I HOPE MY POSTS ARE GETTING BETTER.
    Dunno. Maybe you just cleaned more crud off the lathe?


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    See if you can get an electrical schematic for your lathe from Monarch. The ELSR reverse speed option was installed at the factory and they'll have the right schematic. All I can find here is the one for the m/g unit with non-variable reverse, a lot simpler.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rke[pler View Post
    See if you can get an electrical schematic for your lathe from Monarch. The ELSR reverse speed option was installed at the factory and they'll have the right schematic. All I can find here is the one for the m/g unit with non-variable reverse, a lot simpler.
    "Non-variable" could be useful.

    Given that few 10EE have ANY such provision and setting the speed of it would not ordinarily be a "critical need" if they DID have.

    Basically, it is a time-saver on (semi) production multiple piece-count working, no big deal if not there at all for onesies and fewsies.

    As it isn't. There at all. Mostly.

    12-foot bed, 6 or 8 foot in the cut, 30-plus inch Niles, carriage mass "significant"?

    Surely did appreciate the War ONE era all-mechanical, one-speed power-return.

    20 inch c-to-c? Easy-rider carriage hand-cranked?

    "BFD".

    Some among use might even just remove it, VPI wrap it, store it for the next minder to cogitate over merit or lack-thereof ... after we've clocked-out.

    VFD, servo, 4Q DC Drive powered systems already have better built right in.

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    Ron,

    Here are links to more threads/posts that include photos of or mention the variable/rapid reverse unit:
    The last one apparently has/had photos on MetalMeet.com which won't display. However, Google image search found this photo from that post:
    peter-miles-20170224_164956-variable-rapid-reverse.jpg

    (link)

    So far, none have any kind of dial. I don't find that surprising, since the main speed control doesn't either. In fact, since DC motor machines have two speed ranges (via the back-gear unit), it wouldn't make sense to mark RPMs on a dial.

    Cal

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