Exciter internal wiring. Who knows how to wire the fields?
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  1. #1
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    Default Exciter internal wiring. Who knows how to wire the fields?

    There are ten wires in my exciter. 1945 10ee MG.
    there are two windings with 4 wires each and two wires for the brushes

    right now i am getting about 112v dc out of my exciter but the voltage drops significantly when i start the spindle at the highest RPM
    it drops 30v. sometimes the spindle starts sometimes it doesnt and the contactor drops out.

    FA relay doesnt operate but that is a separate problem
    I have an electronic 120vdc power supply that will start the spindle at all speeds flawlessly when i use it in place of the exciter.

    Can anyone tell me how the field windings and the brushes need to be spliced inside the exciter for proper operation?
    Previous owner had it completely wrong. I have to start from scratch.

    I saw the hand written schematic that is posted on PM from peter222 IIRC. But i can't figure out the orientation of the drawing.
    This is a piggyback exciter

    Thanks
    Rich

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    The field need to be in series lets say the top lead is positive and the negative lead is negative that means you need to connect top lead of one to the bottom lead of the other pair. If you are getting a decrease in voltage when you load the exciter generator that means on the larger wires field you need to reverse them.

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    I don't suppose that there are any tags on the leads?

    Way out of my area of knowledge here, but if you spin the exciter with the leads disconnected and read the voltages across each pair, that should tell you the polarity of each winding.

    Rich, can you please post the measured resistance of each winding? Make sure you check each winding for shorts to the case or another windings.

    Cal

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    no tags anywhere
    no markings
    no colors
    everything is black
    i did measure the resistance of all four windings
    the shunts matched and the series field matched. i dont remember the readings.
    i didn't measure to ground though.

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    so are you saying i should reverse the polarity of the series field wires and leave the shunt field wires as they are?
    or should i reverse the polarity of both?

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    Quote Originally Posted by lectrician1 View Post
    so are you saying i should reverse the polarity of the series field wires and leave the shunt field wires as they are?
    or should i reverse the polarity of both?
    Yep just reverse the series field wires only.

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    reversing the shunt field wires will reverse the polarity of the generator.

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    i reversed the series field wires and the exciter is working MUCH better. its making 145vdc now!

    THANK YOU

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    Glad that worked now you can adjust the resistor for the desired voltage. Go make some chips.

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    Could or would one of you gentlemen draw a schematic of the field leads [wires] and brush leads [wires] ?
    Could you draw it such that it is oriented with the actual items in the exciter?

    When a person looks at the wires, if they are not numbered or labeled, jus show do you determine if the previous worker put the correct wires together?

    Anything to help a guy sort through the wiring in his exciter to see if it is wired right or wrong...

    Thanks.
    DualValve.

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    i'll work on a drawing

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    Thank you, I'm looking forward to seeing it.

    DualValve

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    Quote Originally Posted by DualValve View Post
    Could or would one of you gentlemen draw a schematic of the field leads [wires] and brush leads [wires] ?
    Could you draw it such that it is oriented with the actual items in the exciter?

    When a person looks at the wires, if they are not numbered or labeled, jus show do you determine if the previous worker put the correct wires together?

    Anything to help a guy sort through the wiring in his exciter to see if it is wired right or wrong...

    Thanks.
    DualValve.
    Schematic I leave to others, but pictures...

    I expect to have DualValve's MG hanging vertically off a hook around mid-day Saturday as I mate it to the pallet & crate. That's the last version, the bespoke mount one without adjusting screws.

    If the been-left-in-the-rain Nikon Coolpix is still uncooperative, I may go and buy another camera, 'coz we need photos for Fastenal as well.

    If I MOVE some unrelated s**t and can get decent lighting at it, not just flash, I can also get shots of the one still in the belly of numbah TWO 10EE. That's the earlier one, with the Exciter on adjusting screws.

    AFAIK, all the wires live at the belt and pulley end, and neither unit has been messed-with.

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    i sent you a drawing of my exciter wiring. i tried to download on PM but the pic is small and oriented wrong. could you try downloading and resizing my email pic?

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    Default here is my drawing

    d1948919-f147-45fe-9e5e-9802bdfc2fc0.jpg
    My pics dont download correctly
    ee28386-exciter-wiring-ctr.jpg
    Last edited by Cal Haines; 11-23-2019 at 08:32 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lectrician1 View Post
    i sent you a drawing of my exciter wiring. i tried to download on PM but the pic is small and oriented wrong. could you try downloading and resizing my email pic?
    Just got it.

    Let's try:

    exciter.jpg

    I think we are both hitting the same PM built-in resizing toolset?

    Best is to email a copy to Cal Haines - he is also sort of "technical data master librarian" as well as our Moderator.

    Then also direct email to the few others actually working on it so as to get to the end on a solution you can write-up or recap once it is sorted out.

    DualValve's one has not been messed with between MG or Exciter and terminal box, BUT..

    - He will have ALL the other wiring of an MG to do from a cold start.

    - My one will be checked out "someday", then used to test a new "universal donor" DC panel.

    Providing I stay alive, solvent, and out of other trouble long enough to get a "round tuit" off the damned backorder stack.

    Read: "not any time SOON!"


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    Rich,

    I added your diagram to post #15 and I'll delete the other thread where you also tried to upload it.

    There's something REALLY funky about the file format that your iPhone produces. I tried resizing it to under the 100kb limit and it still came in as a tiny image. It crashed my main photo editing program (Corel Draw 7) when I tried to load it. I finally had to convert it to Targa format and back to get rid of whatever weird stuff Apple put in there.

    Cal

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cal Haines View Post
    Rich,

    I added your diagram to post #15 and I'll delete the other thread where you also tried to upload it.

    There's something REALLY funky about the file format that your iPhone produces. I tried resizing it to under the 100kb limit and it still came in as a tiny image. It crashed my main photo editing program (Corel Draw 7) when I tried to load it. I finally had to convert it to Targa format and back to get rid of whatever weird stuff Apple put in there.

    Cal
    was wondering what happened to that thread! LOL

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    Rich asked me to post the pic, but I see Cal fixed it. I don't know what funkyness is going on with Apple either, but my solution is I take pics with iphone, email to myself, I use yahoo mail, make duplicates of the downloaded pictures on my Mac, delete the originals and then on each "***copy.jpg" rotate left 90, rotate right 90, and then save, and then the picture uploads properly. Rich uses the cloud rather than emailing to himself, the cloud messes up somehow.

    My procedure sounds like a pain in the A, but it only takes a moment.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lectrician1 View Post
    d1948919-f147-45fe-9e5e-9802bdfc2fc0.jpg
    My pics dont download correctly
    ee28386-exciter-wiring-ctr.jpg
    Thanks, Cal...

    Rich? Are these tests being run with the main RPM control rheostats in the circuit?

    If so, the value of the one as has been patched is probably UNDER the motor-maker's nominal max inserted resistance. That will affect the range it commands. It can also present a different load that expected.

    I've just taken readings with two different DMM off the set of Rheostats as will be heading your way, plus the other set going to DualValve.

    0 - 680 Ohms, rearmost, adjacent the chain sprocket.

    I presume this is Field Power control, exciter-generator and motor-generator.

    0 - 400 Ohms, foremost, closest to the casting,

    This matches the motor spec for insertion to current-limit for max nameplate RPM, so I presume that is final-drive motor field control.

    CAVEAT: I could have that tasking backwards, as I don't actually "do" MG rigs.
    I just hide them from the Secret Police until a safe house can be found.


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