Full tear down and Rebuild of a 10EE Round Dial - Page 15
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  1. #281
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    To re-install the generator unit, I am using a plywood sled cut out of some scrap baltic birch, Its sitting on top of two 4x6's for clearance.
    generatorinstallation1.jpg
    I then sat the generator unit on top of the ply.
    generatorinstallation2.jpg
    Here are the new vibration damping feet I ordered for the generator. They are rated for 100lbs each. The original rubber pads Monarch used are decomposing to the point they are not longer suitable.
    generatorinstallation3.jpg
    I placed the feet over the mounting holes in the casting and slid the generator in using the plywood sheet aligning the back to mounting holes first. Once those bolts where loosely in, I pulled the sheet out and the generator dropped onto the front mounts perfectly. Except for one big problem, those mounts fully compressed under the weight of the generator. Which I am a bit surprised by. I ended up having to order new 200Lb rated mounts for it from McMaster. I am also waiting for a new larger junction box for the generator to arrive, so I will have room to house the capacitors for the conversion to single phase that I am doing. Once all of that is here, I will tidy up the wire leads and test it again with the Megger.


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    While waiting for parts for the generator, I started to work on putting the back gear box back together. Monarch wanted $70 for the front gasket alone. So I decided I will be making my own using gasket paper.

    First I used a hollow hole punch to make a hole for one of the locating pins.
    bacjkgeargasketmaking1.jpg
    I then laid the paper over the front of the gear box, and used pressure to make an indent for where the other pin hole needs to be and then punched the pin hole.
    bacjkgeargasketmaking2.jpg
    I then laid the front back onto of the gear box, and used a long marking pen to locate the holes for the bolts.
    bacjkgeargasketmaking4.jpg
    Those then got punched and I assembled it all again and then used an exact to trim the sides.\
    bacjkgeargasketmaking4.jpg
    And then did the same for the inside.
    bacjkgeargasketmaking5.jpg

  3. #283
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    I used the same technique to do the gasket for the front bearing retainers as well as the side mount oil gauge.
    bacjkgeargasketmaking6.jpgbacjkgeargasketmaking7.jpgbacjkgeargasketmaking8.jpg
    For making gaskets, I really like my Mayhew pro hollow punch set.
    mayhewhollowpunchset.jpg
    A big advantage that the Mayhew sets offer that the cheaper ones dont, is the ability to stack the cutters to make perfectly concentric rings. I used this ability to make the cork seals for the oil sight gauge. First a ⅝ cutter gets installed.
    makingcorkgaskets1.jpg

  4. #284
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    Then the 1-⅝ cutter gets stacked on top.
    makingcorkgaskets2.jpg
    I have found the best ways to cut with the hollow punches is to use them in my arbor press. Here is me doing a test with scrap gasket material.
    makingcorkgaskets3.jpg
    And here is a stack of the cork gaskets. I made enough to do all of the oil sights on the machine. Once set up it only took a couple of minutes if that.
    makingcorkgaskets4.jpg
    The smaller cork rings used the ⅝ and ⅞ cutters. I used a small hollow punch to make the cut outs for the for mounting screws. Here is the first one installed.
    oilsightguageinstall1.jpg
    I then screwed the outer cover to some scrap wood so I could polish it on my baldour buffer.
    oilsightguageinstall2.jpg

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  6. #285
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    The smaller cork ring gets installed on the inside of the outer cover and the glass gets dropped in to it.
    oilsightguageinstall1.jpg
    The glass is 0.9360"dia.
    oilsightguageinstall4.jpg
    I need to find a source for it. Monarch wants $55 for one!
    Here is what the oil guage looks like installed back on the gear box. I made another gasket to go between it and the gear box.
    oilsightguageinstall5.jpg
    The oil fill port onto of the gear box is a vented plug. That will get installed once its back on the motor and filled with oil.
    backgearboxassembly1.jpg
    I replaced the worn bottom drain plug with a new one from McMaster.
    backgearboxassembly2.jpg

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    backgearboxassembly3.jpg
    To install the oil seal on the side, I first dropped the selector shaft in, and slid the seal over it.
    backgearboxassembly4.jpg
    I then slipped the correct size seal driver over it and used a long socket as a drift to press it in.
    backgearboxassembly5.jpgbackgearboxassembly6.jpg
    The machined surfaces on the front get blued first, then I attached both of the front bearing retainer plates with new gaskets that I made.
    backgearboxassembly7.jpg
    There is a larger retaining washer that gets fitted over the lower bearings before its plate gets installed. The lower open bearing is a SKF 6209/C3 and the lower front sealed bearing is a SKF 6209-2RS1NR/C3GJN


    Now, I just need to wait for the last two bearings to arrive before assembling the rest of it.


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    I don't like using thread cutting taps and dies to chase threads. It's too easy to damage the threads. I've got a set of thread repair taps, dies and files that are perfect for this sort of thing. Here's a link to a set that similar to mine: Amazon.com: Kastar 971 SAE and Metric Thread Restorer Kit : Industrial & Scientific

    You might want to test the AC motor before you put the MG back in the base.

    Cal

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    I use the Allpax AX6010 gasket cutter with pretty good results.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cal Haines View Post
    I don't like using thread cutting taps and dies to chase threads. It's too easy to damage the threads. I've got a set of thread repair taps, dies and files that are perfect for this sort of thing. Here's a link to a set that similar to mine: Amazon.com: Kastar 971 SAE and Metric Thread Restorer Kit : Industrial & Scientific

    You might want to test the AC motor before you put the MG back in the base.

    Cal
    You know, I have been on the fence about buying one of those rethreaded sets for years..... You finally pushed me over the edge and I just ordered one. Turns out Lang makes them for Snapon, etc. but are ½ the price. Thread restoration seems to be the only time I have found a good use for plug taps, but that does require quite a bit of "feel" not to F stuff up.

    I do agree it would be smarter to test the MG before inserting it back in the base. I did test the AC portion with the Megger prior to inserting it in to the MG casting, so I do have high confidence or cockiness it will work. Here is the post with the results. I am planning on testing both the AC and DC sides with the Megger again, but my OCD would like me to terminate those leads into the new junction box first, VS trying to sort through the current rats nest. I'm at the point where I am one good winter storm away from being back to work traveling full time for ski season... so I'm trying to maximize efficiency with minimizing the loss of quality... its a double edge sword, and I need to be in a position where I can walk away from the project for 6 months before restarting it. So lots of notes and tagging wherever I leave off.

    Quote Originally Posted by TBJK View Post
    I use the Allpax AX6010 gasket cutter with pretty good results.
    I have not seen those before. Can you elaborate on why it's advantageous?

    I keep telling my self I don't need to buy any more tools (yes, I keep lying to myself) but it turns out there is always something you need for a project no matter how well equipped your shop is. I'm just at a point, if I am going to buy a new tool, it needs to justify its existance in either a capability I do not currently have, time saved or increased precision. At least then I have an argument to present my wife with....

  15. #290
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    I Like that you can pin the center. You then can dial in any diameter that you want. It has a built in ruler in it, the blades are interchangeable. Last week I had to do some custom gaskets. Somewhat oddball sizes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GrantGunderson View Post
    I do agree it would be smarter to test the MG before inserting it back in the base.
    Dead-easy for a Solid State Drive.. there's no "DC panel" so only A1,A2, F1,F2 and a frame ground.

    More complex for any OEM drive. You'll need to make up a patch harness of some sort to remote rather a LOT of wires.

    Even so, I submit you only have to do that ONCE, then aside the "patch cord set" for another time once you have everything vetted, corrected, adjusted....and are confident the whole rig can go back into the "cave" and remain there for long years.

    A pair of "Ell" rails can make getting it in and out "tolerable". But it is still enough of a tedious and time-consuming PITA, any way you cut it, that you don't want to have to make a habit of it.

    (gasket cutters..)

    I have not seen those before. Can you elaborate on why it's advantageous?

    I keep telling my self I don't need to buy any more tools
    Sweet goods!

    I wish I had those "back in the day" ... when I made LOTS of gaskets.

    For a 10EE? Lovely work on the cork gaskets. And cork is NICE for gaskets. I even keep the material to-hand.

    That said? I put my sight glasses back with two "O' rings each. Works well. Is easy to pull and replace fast.

    OTHER gaskets (apron, gearboxes..) need a proper gasket, not an "O" ring. The gasket also serves to control spacing.

    Those may not benefit as readily from a cutter set?


    2CW

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    Quote Originally Posted by thermite View Post

    More complex for any OEM drive. You'll need to make up a patch harness of some sort to remote rather a LOT of wires.

    Even so, I submit you only have to do that ONCE, then aside the "patch cord set" for another time once you have everything vetted, corrected, adjusted....and are confident the whole rig can go back into the "cave" and remain there for long years.

    A pair of "Ell" rails can make getting it in and out "tolerable". But it is still enough of a tedious and time-consuming PITA, any way you cut it, that you don't want to have to make a habit of it.



    Sweet goods!

    I wish I had those "back in the day" ... when I made LOTS of gaskets.

    For a 10EE? Lovely work on the cork gaskets. And cork is NICE for gaskets. I even keep the material to-hand.

    That said? I put my sight glasses back with two "O' rings each. Works well. Is easy to pull and replace fast.

    OTHER gaskets (apron, gearboxes..) need a proper gasket, not an "O" ring. The gasket also serves to control spacing.

    Those may not benefit as readily from a cutter set?


    2CW
    The new larger box for the electronics should be here Monday or so. I plan on tackling the megger testing then. I prefer to do that once everything has its finally crimps on, so no chance for additional issues after the fact. I did consider modifying the MG setup to slide in and out on a rail system. Would be easy to do with Unistrut. Problem with that is there is not enough clearance in the machine to add rails and still have room for the vibration dampening mounts.... One of the brilliance in the design of the 10EE is how the motor and MG units are fully vibrationally isolated from the machine and I dont want to change that. The plywood sled made getting it in easy enough, but I agree I dont want to make a habit of that, despite how good of strength training it may be.

    As for gaskets, there is a lot of different types out there! The paper material I picked up for the back gear is a bit thicker than what the factory used but for that application, I think it will be ok. I need to see if I can find some thinner material for more tolerance specific locations.

    The bearings for the back gear finally arrived! Still waiting on the rest of my parts orders so hopefully all will be here by the end of the Thanksgiving break.

    The smaller bearings for the back gear are SKS 6203-2RSJEM
    backgearassembly9.jpg
    They get pressed into the back of the back gear housing as well as the front with my arbor press.
    backgearassembly10.jpg
    The back gear drive gear then gets pressed onto its shaft.
    backgearassembly11.jpg
    Note the orientation of it with the proud side facing down to clear the back of the housing. It then gets pressed into the back gear housing.
    backgearassembly12.jpg
    Next, I laid out the lever arms for the back gear selector shaft. The narrow ends go up top.

    backgearassembly13.jpg
    Those get attached to the shaft with a combination of set screws as well as threaded taper pins.


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    I dont really understand the reasoning of using both set screws and especially the use of the threaded taper pins for this use..... Regardless, they are a #2 pin that I cut down by a ¼" to match the length of the factory ones.
    backgearassembly14.jpg
    Here they are installed.
    backgearassembly15.jpg
    The external selector lever gets attached to the shaft with a taper pin as well as a dog point set screw. The taper pin is a #0x1" pin.
    backgearassembly16.jpg
    backgearassembly17.jpg
    Once again I dont really understand the reasoning behind using both a taper pin and a dog point set screw, but it is what it is. BTW, I am using my Nepro's ⅜ Compact head ratchet here. I love that ratchet. If you are not familiar with them, they make my Snapon Dual 80's feel like Horror Freight cheapies.

    I then slid the back gear clutch into the selector dogs to check the fit and tightened the dog point set screws on the interior selector arms.
    backgearassembly18.jpg

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    I then tightened the plug into the hole on the opposite side of the selector shaft.
    backgearassembly19.jpg
    I then lubed the front output gear and its shaft and slid its spacer on it.
    backgearassembly20.jpg
    It then slides into the front housing of the back gear. The back gear is now ready to install on the DC motor.

    To prep the DC motor for the back gear, the key for the shaft needs to get reinstalled using two small set screws.
    backgearassembly21.jpg
    And here is where I ran into a road block. That key apparently got bent when I removed it. Despite carefully tapping it back in and tightening it down, it won't allow the clutch to freely slide on it the entire length. While I could file it down, that would take away from the tolerance of the fit. I decided to order a new 1/4x1/4x2.5 key from McMaster. Once that arrives I will drill and tap it on the Bridgeport and I can then continue the install. Until then, time to take a brake to spend Thanksgiving with the family. I hope you have a great holiday weekend as well!

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    Quote Originally Posted by GrantGunderson View Post
    I dont really understand the reasoning of using both set screws and especially the use of the threaded taper pins for this use..... Regardless, they are a #2 pin that I cut down by a ¼" to match the length of the factory ones.
    backgearassembly14.jpg
    Here they are installed.
    backgearassembly15.jpg
    The external selector lever gets attached to the shaft with a taper pin as well as a dog point set screw. The taper pin is a #0x1" pin.
    backgearassembly16.jpg
    backgearassembly17.jpg
    Once again I dont really understand the reasoning behind using both a taper pin and a dog point set screw, but it is what it is. BTW, I am using my Nepro's ⅜ Compact head ratchet here. I love that ratchet. If you are not familiar with them, they make my Snapon Dual 80's feel like Horror Freight cheapies.

    I then slid the back gear clutch into the selector dogs to check the fit and tightened the dog point set screws on the interior selector arms.
    backgearassembly18.jpg
    MY guess on the tapered pins is to allow for more shear strength or alignment. Ive seen many styles of set screws fail. Then the threads are there to be able to remove them incase they are in a blind hole. I see them often in my field on our competitors equipment.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GrantGunderson View Post
    I dont really understand the reasoning of using both set screws and especially the use of the threaded taper pins for this use.....
    A theory I read and agree with is, during the original build, for alignment purposes set screws are used as a place holder. Once alignment is sorted and set screws snugged, then the taper pins are drilled.

    Not just on this, but a variety on Monarch handles and such are set this way.

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    You are ending up with quite an international set of bearings!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yan Wo View Post
    You are ending up with quite an international set of bearings!
    All he needs now is to adopt a Persian Tomcat.

    AKA "ball-bearing mouse trap".

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    Quote Originally Posted by texasgunsmith View Post
    A theory I read and agree with is, during the original build, for alignment purposes set screws are used as a place holder. Once alignment is sorted and set screws snugged, then the taper pins are drilled.

    Not just on this, but a variety on Monarch handles and such are set this way.
    That makes sense. Also explains why all of the pins are drilled a bit off angle. One would think with the thousands of taper pin holes Monarch drilled, they would have devised some jigs to save the steps with the set screws.

    Quote Originally Posted by Yan Wo View Post
    You are ending up with quite an international set of bearings!
    Ha, yes. On one hand I feel its a bit odd putting import bearings on such a classic piece of American engineering, but I dont know if its even possible to source all of those bearings made in the USA now. I've been ordering all of the bearings from McMaster, so at least they generally only care high quality ones. I did try to order from my local Bearing shop, but those guys are going on 5 months and still dont have the order fulfilled.


    Quote Originally Posted by thermite View Post
    All he needs now is to adopt a Persian Tomcat.

    AKA "ball-bearing mouse trap".
    ha! best mouse trap I have ever seen was one a friend had that fired an old round bullet.


    Quote Originally Posted by TBJK View Post
    MY guess on the tapered pins is to allow for more shear strength or alignment. Ive seen many styles of set screws fail. Then the threads are there to be able to remove them incase they are in a blind hole. I see them often in my field on our competitors equipment.
    I understand using taper pins for their strength and alignment properties, but using them in addition to set screws makes the set screws obsolete. The threaded taper pins in this use also seem to be odd, as a normal taper pin would work just fine..... but I digress I am sure Monarch had its reasons.

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    Quote Originally Posted by texasgunsmith View Post
    A theory I read and agree with is, during the original build, for alignment purposes set screws are used as a place holder. Once alignment is sorted and set screws snugged, then the taper pins are drilled.

    Not just on this, but a variety on Monarch handles and such are set this way.


    I agree 100%. Not much reason, if any, to use belts and suspenders in this case other than to sort out the alignment and prepare for the drilling and otherwise reaming for the taper pins.


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